From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED, HTML_FONT_LOW_CONTRAST,HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 6394 invoked from network); 10 Jan 2024 17:26:54 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (2600:3c01:e000:146::1) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 10 Jan 2024 17:26:54 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C932A43F07; Thu, 11 Jan 2024 03:26:52 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-vk1-xa2e.google.com (mail-vk1-xa2e.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::a2e]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 90A0E43F05 for ; Thu, 11 Jan 2024 03:26:43 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-vk1-xa2e.google.com with SMTP id 71dfb90a1353d-4b77c844087so2533861e0c.1 for ; Wed, 10 Jan 2024 09:26:43 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ccc.com; s=google; t=1704907602; x=1705512402; darn=tuhs.org; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=Aem4Jb96xm02IuFZ1awYK5rs8EYtAKwKdxM93Kg16qY=; b=Fo+KrFDLM+OFJ5Iti7wz+y2UEYlQVbnQUhT58K23Ex+2KM6FCh6JkejSP1I8a6+jq/ rK++ZiZqhAV9Y7tzGPrx5mBpU5b0IzSjKlzU1a/iUXbaFG3sxt2rzKzk/7lQiZuoAiH5 IKGX2YjwyHkmMvH1WhePuQrz2xFqd5w8xY78k= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1704907602; x=1705512402; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=Aem4Jb96xm02IuFZ1awYK5rs8EYtAKwKdxM93Kg16qY=; b=r8BrDJxU5v29+zws1X1tLrhdaZPFtDQTff88gLUoBRlbyaVLxKfX1kLCCF7ke30HWS ft78Ib/20OLpXVWD4z1XV1+YFcBaLuzMaChJ94ttKOMFmHmlY70nFKzSUeo+GpPnAuKV WltVjV3yiPxKJxlA31s8stH/x1A2wnzXNo259xTV0EEMyEOa+UH7tqfTWTaDWmm0u0Bn W5CM8oQcZAvbZLIhFwIagw1DgXrETckLmO83gq9KTMD43QL+oV52w3ET/wl2eNWMSuW9 okFgzjdtq0eQKgRQUqcYfKWDCmAi6bMKBho1HUmadPAPK8Atd3iDY7TBVMcN6H1puwH3 WNKA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YxrAAk8nrOyUgCsnMKpBdSRO0ZxgR+uMBk6XNlt6wUMOxHt4jOX vQNZ9TGFxwMvPbyrO80lMaKOFexh8OnDVk+V3wVITflJUVqpaq/28y9XtBt4dw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IHqwWiucEGQ+lliRAfoQEZ8t4wPq0aCjXCQZRFlWfA1Wfby+J1/cFxLk/b35dG6moTEXSHMmQxypDoUEodp6zc= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6122:8c6:b0:4b7:23c3:2a10 with SMTP id 6-20020a05612208c600b004b723c32a10mr570370vkg.7.1704907601956; Wed, 10 Jan 2024 09:26:41 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20240108032428.co3ozmlneoop6sa2@illithid> <20240108051049.7643537404E9@freecalypso.org> <20240108071109.ykg42tw2gjeacs5f@illithid> <20240109093851.2A29737401E3@freecalypso.org> <7wv881tzt9.fsf@junk.nocrew.org> In-Reply-To: <7wv881tzt9.fsf@junk.nocrew.org> From: Clem Cole Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2024 12:26:02 -0500 Message-ID: To: Lars Brinkhoff Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000fd6ce5060e9abb31" Message-ID-Hash: Q3QXMEYIJE3665E6D4PKBUXBY7KUSDUI X-Message-ID-Hash: Q3QXMEYIJE3665E6D4PKBUXBY7KUSDUI X-MailFrom: clemc@ccc.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: segaloco , Computer Old Farts Followers X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [COFF] Re: [TUHS] Re: Original print of V7 manual? / My own version of troff List-Id: Computer Old Farts Forum Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: --000000000000fd6ce5060e9abb31 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Rich Salz reminded me of the name of the system I was thinking of -- Atex. Given my later interactions with their editorial and IT departments, I'm not sure that Carnex was in the production system there (particularly given the Gunkies description). I never saw it but it could have been before anyone I knew was working there. By the mid/late 80's, they were using Atex for most things. FWIW: By the mid/late 1980s, the IBM PC had been out for a few years, and many people had access to DOS systems. At the Globe, their Atex System had a 300-baud modem on it (and it was 300 baud, not 1200 because the IT folks at the Globe claimed that the Atex required something special about that model modem -- I never knew what -- I've always guessed it was something to do with the maintenance contract not technical but it was not my job -- I just took it as a wonderment and dealt with it). But the big feature Atex offered the Globe was it allowed the reporters to upload and spool their stories, and then the Atex set the type for the editors independent of the filing. But the reporters had to file their story using a very rigid format convention that they all hated (*i.e.*, ask humans to conform to the needs of the computer, not the other way round). By then, most of the reporters used a PC and a simple word processor to edit and then upload to Atex via a terminal emulator program such as ProComm or Kermit. The Atex side was exceedingly dumb and unforgiving. If the user or the system made any error, Atex would toss the story (*i.e.,* not put anything in the spool), and there was no communications protection so that line noise could cause issues. I never saw their side, but I gather Atex was not too friendly to the editors, as there was no way to find out what had been accepted remotely, so they often had to ask the reporters to file the stories multiple times. My sister was working as an occasional stringer for them, given her statehouse connections. I got her to get me the specs for the Atex input system, and I wrote some scripts for her to use the Masscomp box to prep her stories for them and send them off to the Atex System. I became an informal help desk for several of her reporter and photographer friends. :-) I have some interesting stories WRT to all that - but they are not particularly computer-based -- the Richard Reed (the shoe bomber) story and its famous picture you have all undoubtedly seen is one of my favorites. Clem =E1=90=A7 On Wed, Jan 10, 2024 at 2:25=E2=80=AFAM Lars Brinkhoff wr= ote: > Clem Cole writes: > > The software varied greatly, depending on the target customer. For > > instance, by the early 80s, the Boston Globe's input system was still > > terrible - even though the computers had gotten better. I had a couple > of > > friends working there, and they used to b*tch about it. > > Here's something about Camex used at Boston Globe. > https://gunkies.org/wiki/Camexec > > Any comments or additions to this? > > I occasionally bug Speciner about scanning his printouts. > --000000000000fd6ce5060e9abb31 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Rich=C2=A0Salz reminded me of the name of the system I = was thinking=C2=A0of -- Atex.=C2=A0 Given my later interactions with their = editorial and IT departments, I'm not sure that Carnex was in the produ= ction system there (particularly given the=C2=A0Gunkies description).=C2=A0= I never saw it but it could have been before anyone I knew was working the= re.=C2=A0 =C2=A0By the mid/late 80's, they were using Atex for most thi= ngs.

FWIW: By the=C2=A0mid/late 1980s, the IBM PC had = been out for a few years, and many people had access to DOS systems.=C2=A0 = At the Globe, their Atex System had a 300-baud modem on it (and it was 300 = baud, not 1200 because the IT folks at the Globe claimed that the Atex requ= ired something special about that model modem -- I never knew what -- I'= ;ve always guessed it was something to do with the maintenance contract not= technical but it was not my job -- I just took it as a wonderment and deal= t with it).

But the big feature Atex offered the Globe= was it allowed the reporters to=C2=A0upload and spool their stories, and t= hen the Atex set the type for the editors independent of the filing. But th= e reporters had to file their story using a very rigid format convention th= at they all hated (i.e., ask humans to conform to the needs of the c= omputer, not the other way round).=C2=A0 By then, most of the reporters use= d a PC and a simple word processor to edit and then upload to Atex via a te= rminal emulator program such as ProComm or Kermit.

The= Atex side was exceedingly dumb and unforgiving.=C2=A0 If the user or the s= ystem made any error, Atex would toss the story (i.e., not put anyth= ing in the spool), and there was no communications protection so that line = noise could cause issues. I never saw their side, but I gather Atex was not= too friendly to the editors,=C2=A0 as there was no way to find out what ha= d been accepted remotely, so they often had to ask the reporters to=C2=A0fi= le the stories multiple times.=C2=A0

My sister was wor= king as an occasional stringer for them, given her statehouse connections.= =C2=A0 I got her to get me the specs for the Atex input=C2=A0system, and I = wrote some scripts for her to use the Masscomp box to prep her stories for = them and send them off to the Atex System.=C2=A0 =C2=A0I became an informal= help desk for several of her reporter and photographer friends. :-)=C2=A0 = =C2=A0I have some interesting stories WRT to all that - but they are not pa= rticularly computer-based -- the Richard Reed (the shoe bomber) story and i= ts famous picture you have all undoubtedly seen is one of my favorites.

Clem=C2=A0


3D""=E1=90= =A7

On Wed, Jan 10, 2024 at 2:25=E2=80=AFAM Lars Brinkhoff <lars@nocrew.org> wrote:
Clem Cole <clemc@ccc.com> writes:
> The software varied greatly, depending on the target customer.=C2=A0 = =C2=A0For
> instance, by the early 80s,=C2=A0 the Boston Globe's input system = was still
> terrible - even though the computers had gotten better.=C2=A0 I had a = couple of
> friends working there, and they used to b*tch about it.

Here's something about Camex used at Boston Globe.
https://gunkies.org/wiki/Camexec

Any comments or additions to this?

I occasionally bug Speciner about scanning his printouts.
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