From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED, HTML_FONT_LOW_CONTRAST,HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 4787 invoked from network); 21 Dec 2023 22:04:36 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (50.116.15.146) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 21 Dec 2023 22:04:36 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A5ED43EF7; Fri, 22 Dec 2023 08:04:34 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-ua1-x929.google.com (mail-ua1-x929.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::929]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0DE3843EEB for ; Fri, 22 Dec 2023 08:04:28 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-ua1-x929.google.com with SMTP id a1e0cc1a2514c-7cc10f59524so695369241.1 for ; Thu, 21 Dec 2023 14:04:28 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ccc.com; s=google; t=1703196266; x=1703801066; darn=tuhs.org; h=to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version :from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=GvH2SkQdLIAUBnmg16/y8bUZ3zoZaghrNMEZC7li2PU=; b=NkiVjctPgGg/U6bTmlYTHpsaWrxQGm7hgYCHHo6w46ZrUrdsIC8gfiGN2FS65f7dUA huXXf3/sO5BNGk3N+m0FmJukvzY8g41e1PahfulpXZjIaKL3wwbkCRWLcWkLwZQvg6oI XU/zVHqr9TV767tJeDjBt25PBnO6keBiwjVxU= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1703196266; x=1703801066; h=to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version :x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=GvH2SkQdLIAUBnmg16/y8bUZ3zoZaghrNMEZC7li2PU=; b=GfvVtG40mbcn4y/dhKH67E0EylvLJcHe2kLmvs6bIaZ97/TiUbQioalIWT6Yl0VpX3 Kut6UH2binG3aql5RggWKVs8XrOD7yF0i4Q1XszylJyURaFzCXacoSOZg9nfu/CKzVRJ bUsdbVAiX5bJK1+e4eD9j0Pcz0g1kVDCxH8eM7BxvXR5cRC37GKIwLgjrw5/cwTIAb5T k0/KPQeoMswb8cS08Yfm4QzL9JO2YUdDP8oUtliBj61gDNmwazHWqFKsPKo1+RVyWvla utJbExSTdOaNt/z1wszwoRv04pgAGVPA2LUN9ntBjXL31Js6rtZl+Vfzl/2jnmUbjXZP tYWA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YzIYE3U/K3c+xJPOoCzv1IP5kVGlJDbYQALVexI9wNI0Wg4DTJK ehy4cw2aGz0DPV1XLpuKD1rI3o/pW7ZSJnnRGTqzUvfztHeUzI8LWUk3Mz+TCQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IHmaOfgTjNJF7Aq4A3QKo8tiKevzsHULh04Eo+TxsoGN46MxQtTRfFNOVivjlbd0olzm91Y/pa8wptwoxdjYe4= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6122:30aa:b0:4b6:a227:28ac with SMTP id cd42-20020a05612230aa00b004b6a22728acmr1368295vkb.15.1703196266305; Thu, 21 Dec 2023 14:04:26 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Clem Cole Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2023 17:03:50 -0500 Message-ID: To: Computer Old Farts Followers Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000006fb5ef060d0c48e1" Message-ID-Hash: K3ZB2UH2OYHUH5UED4B4FIKYWBD66JIM X-Message-ID-Hash: K3ZB2UH2OYHUH5UED4B4FIKYWBD66JIM X-MailFrom: clemc@ccc.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [COFF] Fwd: Fwd: IBM 1403 line printer on DEC computers? List-Id: Computer Old Farts Forum Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: --0000000000006fb5ef060d0c48e1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable FYI: Tim was Mr. 36-bit kernel and I/O system until he moved to the Vax and later Alpha (and Intel). The CMU device he refers is was the XGP and was a Xerox long-distance fax (LDX). Stanford and MIT would get them too, shortly thereafter. ---------- Forwarded message --------- From: Timothe Litt Date: Thu, Dec 21, 2023 at 1:52=E2=80=AFPM Subject: Re: Fwd: [COFF] IBM 1403 line printer on DEC computers? To: Clem Cole I don't recall ever seeing a 1403 on a DECsystem-10 or DECSYSTEM-20. I suppose someone could have connected one to a systems concepts channel... or the DX20 Massbus -> IBM MUX/SEL channel used for the STC (TU70/1/2) tape and disk (RP20=3DSTC 8650) disk drives. (A KMC11-based device.) Not sure why anyone would. Most of the DEC printers on the -10/20 were Dataproducts buy-outs, and were quite competent. 1,000 - 1,250 LPM. Earlier, we also bought from MDS and Analex; good performance (1,000LPM), but needed more TLC from FS. The majority were drum printers; the LP25 was a band printer, and lighter duty (~300LPM). Traditionally, we had long-line interfaces to allow all the dust and mess to be located outside the machine room. Despite filters, dust doesn't go well with removable disk packs. ANF-10 (and eventually DECnet) remote stations provided distributed printing. CMU had a custom interface to some XeroX printer - that begat Scribe. The LN01 brought laser printing - light duty, but was nice for those endless status reports and presentations. I think the guts were Canon - but in any case a Japanese buyout. Postscript. Networked. For high volume printing internally, we used XeroX laser printers when they became available. Not what you'd think of today - these are huge, high-volume devices. Bigger than the commercial copiers you'd see in print shops. I(Perhaps interestingly, internally they used PDP-11s running 11M.) Networked, not direct attach. They also were popular in IBM shops. We eventually released the software to drive them (DQS) as part of GALAXY. The TU7x were solid drives - enough so that the SDC used them for making distribution tapes. The copy software managed to keep 8 drives spinning at 125/200 ips - which was non-trivial on TOPS-20. The DX20/TX0{2,3}/TU7x *was *eventually made available for VAX - IIRC as part of the "Migration" strategy to keep customers when the -10/20 were killed. I think CSS did the work on that for the LCG PL. Tapes only - I don't think anyone wanted the disks by them - we had cheaper dual-porting via the HSC/CI, and larger disks. The biggest issue for printers on VAX was the omission of VFU support. Kinda hard to print paychecks and custom forms without it - especially if you're porting COBOL from the other 3-letter company. Technically, the (Unibuas) LP20 could have been used, but wasn't. CSS eventually solved that with some prodding from Aquarius - I pushed that among other high-end I/O requirements. On 21-Dec-23 12:29, Clem Cole wrote: Tim - care to take a stab at this? =E1=90=A7 --0000000000006fb5ef060d0c48e1 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
FYI: Tim was Mr. 36-bit kernel = and I/O system until he moved to the Vax and later Alpha (and Intel).
The CMU device he refers is was the X= GP and was a Xerox long-distance fax (LDX).=C2=A0 Stanford and MIT would ge= t them too, shortly thereafter.

=
---------- Forwarded message --------= -
From: Timothe Litt=C2=A0
Date: Thu, Dec 21, 2023 at 1:52=E2=80=AFPM
Subject: Re: F= wd: [COFF] IBM 1403 line printer on DEC computers?
To: Clem Cole=C2=A0
=20 =20 =20

I don't recall ever seeing a 1403 on a DECsystem-10 or DECSYSTEM-20.=C2=A0 I suppose someone could have connected one to a systems concepts channel... or the DX20 Massbus -> IBM MUX/SEL channel used for the STC (TU70/1/2)=C2=A0 tape and disk (RP20=3DSTC 8= 650) disk drives.=C2=A0 (A KMC11-based device.)=C2=A0 Not sure why anyone would.=C2=A0=C2=A0

Most of the DEC printers on the -10/20 were Dataproducts buy-outs, and were quite competent.=C2=A0 1,000 - 1,250 LPM.=C2=A0 Ea= rlier, we also bought from MDS and Analex; good performance (1,000LPM), but needed more TLC from FS.=C2=A0 The majority were drum printers; t= he LP25 was a band printer, and lighter duty (~300LPM).

Traditionally, we had long-line interfaces to allow all the dust and mess to be located outside the machine room.=C2=A0 Despite filter= s, dust doesn't go well with removable disk packs.=C2=A0 ANF-10 (and eventually DECnet) remote stations provided distributed printing.

CMU had a custom interface to some XeroX printer - that begat Scribe.

The LN01 brought laser printing - light duty, but was nice for those endless status reports and presentations.=C2=A0 I think the gut= s were Canon - but in any case a Japanese buyout.=C2=A0 Postscript.=C2= =A0 Networked.

For high volume printing internally, we used XeroX laser printers when they became available.=C2=A0 Not what you'd think of today -= these are huge, high-volume devices.=C2=A0 Bigger than the commercial copie= rs you'd see in print shops.=C2=A0 I(Perhaps interestingly, internal= ly they used PDP-11s running 11M.)=C2=A0 Networked, not direct attach.= =C2=A0 They also were popular in IBM shops.=C2=A0 We eventually released the software to drive them (DQS) as part of GALAXY.

The TU7x were solid drives - enough so that the SDC used them for making distribution tapes.=C2=A0 The copy software managed to keep 8 drives spinning at 125/200 ips - which was non-trivial on TOPS-20.

The DX20/TX0{2,3}/TU7x was eventually made available for VAX - IIRC as part of the "Migration" strategy to keep cust= omers when the -10/20 were killed.=C2=A0 I think CSS did the work on that f= or the LCG PL.=C2=A0 Tapes only - I don't think anyone wanted the di= sks by them - we had cheaper dual-porting via the HSC/CI, and larger disks.

The biggest issue for printers on VAX was the omission of VFU support.=C2=A0 Kinda hard to print paychecks and custom forms without it - especially if you're porting COBOL from the other 3-letter company.=C2=A0 Technically, the (Unibuas) LP20 could have been used, but wasn't.=C2=A0 CSS eventually solved that with some prodding f= rom Aquarius - I pushed that among other high-end I/O requirements.

On 21-Dec-23 12:29, Clem Cole wrote:
=20
=C2=A0T= im - care to take a stab at this?
=E1=90=A7
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