From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED, HTML_FONT_LOW_CONTRAST,HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_32,HTML_MESSAGE, MAILING_LIST_MULTI autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 21611 invoked from network); 25 Aug 2023 16:04:54 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (50.116.15.146) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 25 Aug 2023 16:04:54 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6558D42A8D; Sat, 26 Aug 2023 02:04:52 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-ot1-x32d.google.com (mail-ot1-x32d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::32d]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E52E842A8A for ; Sat, 26 Aug 2023 02:04:43 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-ot1-x32d.google.com with SMTP id 46e09a7af769-6b9c9944da8so840724a34.3 for ; Fri, 25 Aug 2023 09:04:43 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ccc.com; s=google; t=1692979482; x=1693584282; h=to:subject:message-id:date:from:mime-version:from:to:cc:subject :date:message-id:reply-to; bh=Ad4CP/jyLbNUr6HU5odS6IOQ2LWQsU0aLza11psJpx8=; b=gWoUnFyZ+mpwwzMx6Ofs3p7GkYkTkJk43anwtIb1qiwzQNsb736TTqm4Co8WPhEzn3 BekrGfdWn1+crXFrENWyxUlG1XUanZH2QlDGnaJZQoPOMd8RBDyAoqHIhV2GBwbhkZQH 6bvoRDCv4599B59aeMCY7jKYJkwhCAvgJ0CQQ= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20221208; t=1692979482; x=1693584282; h=to:subject:message-id:date:from:mime-version:x-gm-message-state :from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=Ad4CP/jyLbNUr6HU5odS6IOQ2LWQsU0aLza11psJpx8=; b=GpH0Xna9RJEOtZzcL80LLTWDQAZ9OgKTdNxw/EHzovLUT5SGT+9OTdYV2WAPxCQndw pXzMNec5BnAbh4EDWtn1aCJ++wQWgmXRi4z6BCX8rkLcpe7qBO0e+0/1gUrG5zOUA10x nPukGzEJv+9qugl3X7Oxd5WghopOjVSoBZ+mu0XuywFHh3t0HgwxluTLl7TjEo1qhSDS Gg+KHI8EUImveh8ZgTCdtT1HKps5igB5ylBtOB6Qqo1fVRinObVI99ng0eoocMXrOOOr ZZFMFawYc2V89C3uZ/CXbms6ovIEgCdabqrTf+LGkT+ImH7F52aDeE/gyHsS9PICy9op u2yA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yz7o5DNrCCcSibZBAAC/1sWF6+gbmqi3zpNMqhtiCi7kYVJJj+q yFU5xXD2FjrEVIE0I48S8yQP4kf1aZpdsBKHJedDrw1JQ7o9HKSOjxUSzQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IEh/W3lKsSgzqtqLWYZaSF5BFiZ25uFPYbi191RcceZf2J8ZLUhvu+Gc46SLXqV6Z3guW93gwLfm9RFn4k36mw= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6358:917:b0:135:a5fe:53e1 with SMTP id r23-20020a056358091700b00135a5fe53e1mr20015085rwi.14.1692979482093; Fri, 25 Aug 2023 09:04:42 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Clem Cole Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2023 12:04:05 -0400 Message-ID: To: Computer Old Farts Followers Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000a483bb0603c18041" Message-ID-Hash: 7EEVAPGKYCGKZNSRH44XKR5YI2EG6CIW X-Message-ID-Hash: 7EEVAPGKYCGKZNSRH44XKR5YI2EG6CIW X-MailFrom: clemc@ccc.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [COFF] Fate of CERN's PL-11 Language for the PDP-11 List-Id: Computer Old Farts Forum Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: --000000000000a483bb0603c18041 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable C, BLISS, BCPL, and the like were hardly the only systems programming languages that targeted the PDP-11. I knew about many system programming languages of those times and used all three of these, plus a few others, such as PL/360, which Wirth created at Stanford in the late 1960s to develop the Algol-W compiler. Recently, I was investigating something about early systems programming languages, and a couple of questions came to me that I could use some help finding answers (see below). In 1971, RD Russell of CERN wrote a child of Wirth's PL/360 called PL-11: Programming Language for the DEC PDP-11 Computer in Fortran IV. It supposedly ran on CERN's IBM 360 as a cross-compiler and was hosted on DOS-11 and later RSX. [It seems very 'CARD' oriented if you look at the manual - which makes sense, given the time frame]. I had once before heard about it but knew little. So, I started to dig a little. If I understand some of the history correctly, PL-11 was created/developed for a real-time test jig that CERN needed. While it was available in limited cases, since BLISS-11 required a PDP-10 to cross-compile, it was not considered (I've stated earlier that some poor marketing choices at DEC hurt BLISS's ability to spread). Anyway, a friend at CERN later in the 70s/80s told me they thought that as soon as UNIX made it on the scene there since it was interactive and more accessible, C was quickly preferred as the system programming language of choice. However, a BCPL that had come from somewhere in the UK was also kicking around. So, some questions WRT PL-11: 1. Does anyone here know any (more) of the story -- Why/How? 2. Do you know if the FORTRAN source survives? 3. Did anything interesting/lasting get written using it? Tx Clem =E1=90=A7 --000000000000a483bb0603c18041 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
C, BLISS, BCPL, and the like were hardly the only syste= ms programming languages that targeted the PDP-11.=C2=A0 I knew about many = system programming languages of those times and used all three of these, pl= us a few others, such as PL/360, which Wirth created at Stanford in the lat= e 1960s to develop the Algol-W compiler.=C2=A0 Recently, I was investigatin= g something about early systems programming languages, and a couple of ques= tions came to me that I could use some help finding answers (see below).

In 1971, RD Russell of CERN wrote a child of Wirth's= PL/360 called=C2=A0PL-11: Programming Language for the DEC PDP-11 Computer=C2= =A0in Fortran IV.=C2=A0 It supposedly ran on CERN's IBM 360 as a cross-= compiler and was hosted on DOS-11 and later RSX. [It seems very 'CARD&#= 39; oriented if you look at the manual - which makes sense, given the time = frame].=C2=A0 I had once before=C2=A0heard about it but knew little.=C2=A0 = So, I started to dig a little.

If I understand some of= the history correctly, PL-11 was created/developed for a real-time test ji= g that CERN needed.=C2=A0 While it was available in limited cases, since BL= ISS-11 required a PDP-10 to cross-compile, it was not considered (I've = stated earlier that some poor marketing choices at DEC hurt BLISS's abi= lity to spread).=C2=A0 Anyway, a=C2=A0friend at CERN later in the 70s/80s t= old me they thought that as soon as UNIX made it on the scene there since i= t was interactive and more accessible, C was quickly preferred=C2=A0as the = system programming language of choice. However, a BCPL that had come from s= omewhere in the UK was also kicking around.

So, some q= uestions WRT PL-11:
  1. Does anyone here know any (more) of the= story -- Why/How?
  2. Do you know if the FORTRAN source survives?<= /li>
  3. Did anything interesting/lasting get written using it?
Tx
Clem
3D""=E1=90=A7
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