From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED,RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: from mx1.math.uh.edu (mx1.math.uh.edu [129.7.128.32]) by inbox.vuxu.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF46A233E0 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2024 04:36:30 +0200 (CEST) Received: from lists1.math.uh.edu ([129.7.128.208]) by mx1.math.uh.edu with esmtps (TLS1.3) tls TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (Exim 4.97.1) (envelope-from ) id 1ryjXb-00000002xZx-20Wv for ml@inbox.vuxu.org; Sun, 21 Apr 2024 21:36:28 -0500 Received: from lists1.math.uh.edu ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.math.uh.edu) by lists1.math.uh.edu with smtp (Exim 4.97.1) (envelope-from ) id 1ryjXb-00000003gju-1BkA for ml@inbox.vuxu.org; Sun, 21 Apr 2024 21:36:23 -0500 Received: from mx2.math.uh.edu ([129.7.128.33]) by lists1.math.uh.edu with esmtp (Exim 4.97.1) (envelope-from ) id 1ryjXY-00000003gjl-2DSj for ding@lists.math.uh.edu; Sun, 21 Apr 2024 21:36:20 -0500 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]) by mx2.math.uh.edu with esmtps (TLS1.3) tls TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (Exim 4.97.1) (envelope-from ) id 1ryjXS-00000003lbr-44D6 for ding@lists.math.uh.edu; Sun, 21 Apr 2024 21:36:20 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:Mime-Version:References:Message-ID:Date:Subject: From:To:Sender:Reply-To:Cc:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:In-Reply-To:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=2kRA420zdyd0eDYhZfRgny6plPBs9obX1KuoQXT0Hz4=; b=piBNBSIEXH5UopjslTq31iP1nz UvrkDKGaebB5o7O37ajSa3amfuUGoKR4cp1/BFiiKQIqeqTUWbU3+XanwYWFqlZ1lOp2+Fw3nW0BQ /xiA06eiKDLK1/nak3eZVhjpPMCQ5IEziF6fVkvqMwCA7jHtgd/0Tp0sBmyAy2GtwqxY=; Received: from ciao.gmane.io ([116.202.254.214]) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtps (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1ryjXL-0004aN-Pz for ding@gnus.org; Mon, 22 Apr 2024 04:36:10 +0200 Received: from list by ciao.gmane.io with local (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1ryjXI-0003fX-Ha for ding@gnus.org; Mon, 22 Apr 2024 04:36:05 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: ding@gnus.org From: Eric Abrahamsen Subject: Re: Gnus sometimes reports new messages but not showing them on IMAP server Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2024 19:35:53 -0700 Message-ID: <87wmoqjf92.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> References: <87h6g7mm8r.fsf@debian-hx90.lan> <878r1blqcg.fsf@uwo.ca> <87ttjx55ey.fsf@uwo.ca> <875xwalmf4.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Cancel-Lock: sha1:YX/AqFoPeuFvz11b1i+EuiWNO94= List-ID: Precedence: bulk Greg Troxel writes: > Arash Esbati writes: > >>> I've focused on figuring out why the active number goes wrong, but in >>> the interest of pragmatism it might be better just to make sure that >>> nnimap always does the equivalent of "M-g" at Gnus startup. >> >> That might be a good compromise. > > Agreed. It seems obvious (said knowing that's dangerous) that on > starting up the program, it's best not to rely on state that could be > wrong. That's tricky, because mail programs keep messages and don't > refetch them, but relying on counts of unread seems very trouble prone, > vs "I have this message body and the timestamp matches so I won't fetch > it." > > I think it would also be good to separate > > check for new > > get all the messages that are there > > really rescan and don't believe state > > in terms of being much louder about the differences. I have the > impression that the assembled gnususers here are at least somewhat hazy > on those boundaries. At least I am. I think this is an artifact of Gnus starting out as a newsreader, and adding email capability later. In a NNTP context, the read/unread message count is entirely private to your local machine, and something you can manipulate at will. In an IMAP context, it's very much a part of multi-machine state. Gnus should always defer to the remote server, particularly at start up. I do wish I knew where the bug was coming from, though.