From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.6 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (minnie.tuhs.org [50.116.15.146]) by inbox.vuxu.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 373CF21D21 for ; Fri, 8 Mar 2024 04:58:27 +0100 (CET) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C81D3434AD; Fri, 8 Mar 2024 13:58:23 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mout.perfora.net (mout.perfora.net [74.208.4.197]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C0CE0434A9 for ; Fri, 8 Mar 2024 13:58:19 +1000 (AEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=makerlisp.com; s=s1-ionos; t=1709870299; x=1710475099; i=luther.johnson@makerlisp.com; bh=KbPqvyR+sQNX0VVsSwVBWPMp6P5qpx6ya9EuLis3xz4=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:Subject:To:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To; b=MXQJWwR0moEDrON6MHiKcVTv1mH5KxFXs7o9Kx1YL1E1CaT94hPd5wdUJh5HxNM7 mIsQ5PpLWjgofJynN593YmOGpocov2spU7C9HNwCHumUT1+/C/V/Br19uMoqtPDQQ bTOqvaFWOSf9wqv7eTPSmSdj46CdI7lbx7kSTD8B5Qeo5BvCauFKfKXx9hCSc5kEl BxJfDMLjGfFbXoFhscmry8O0DcHUnOBxKokuLxGIGNYBWzaCafox+0XtbCbfHJ8Fq lG7rQ0InuOLicUN/jDJIupD3CPO+b+SOwemmnsooRlVH398ulTNPt1VDg6dsIt4PW bQFphvxoA9si8M29Iw== X-UI-Sender-Class: 55c96926-9e95-11ee-ae09-1f7a4046a0f6 Received: from makerlispvps ([74.208.29.250]) by mrelay.perfora.net (mreueus002 [74.208.5.2]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0ML6Nr-1riiUN3vHN-000OnE for ; Fri, 08 Mar 2024 04:58:18 +0100 Received: from [192.168.234.134] (unknown [172.58.88.31]) by makerlispvps (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 2B6C88B51B for ; Fri, 8 Mar 2024 03:58:18 +0000 (UTC) To: tuhs@tuhs.org References: <9eb334edeb7568193000f8755704af7799169b17.camel@gmail.com> <789486d8dae3335166640461f7885bf9cf6043cf.camel@gmail.com> <20240308034259.GS2252@mcvoy.com> <724f8deb-1e73-2356-0350-83ec8bd17671@makerlisp.com> From: Luther Johnson Message-ID: <080f1fe8-8b82-b95b-6c94-df3f84d4f311@makerlisp.com> Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2024 20:58:17 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <724f8deb-1e73-2356-0350-83ec8bd17671@makerlisp.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:bkJ4Z6SJl4Y166BwFvLtIGVN9zXoIhKfzGVn28Wrx1IBwPCmpn9 Tn9KVShxwSb8UOyL2ZIfmFn6owbaHh2AGWBn3aKeJuPjQ7NYIL6JgWeLgxdN82SPH7Cj3gf ZhLYP6xWb5WxMWgECul6Hz7FhFOB5qr4Cxok+CRyCQdkV5Jsnydd+UYiiyO+ucr13CaDKyR Em6j1nL3E3XPdUOFvhWqw== UI-OutboundReport: notjunk:1;M01:P0:Roya5daCsjw=;FG75LptdAIK0VK3zr3A4l8e77tO TcjqEuMOwCuBU3YXYPkq5bEDVcg8+ttSstx7b4mOcEdwTY30BOWshcYke1fCLTmGQBjL8SeA+ NFdPxQ+RHrO6J3iEaffOsKcooYYU+Fbbs0Ji6bs9ayr726T1zo0WBPw1pHCx2GDJfPp3FPP3o lGXOM88Vg1lOQJZ3zJkZSDkY2SvPCnDHFjYnYnds3yEq82Efx2ksc96WsEw4ekaSTHxQzALBP 3u2KWgoeh+JcpROX+JskqJXJDgS2KPOn3LRDQ4IJr1+xiJJLNe7hz5rfKU8juSHrAT6sMotHi bqQdzceyDz+Cfi2TNv/VG79ilgQx2ymDM5ZyL0yKbm2IWOc8HRtrrTJXEpwfwGYKJR4GUcpIs YTVwFB9b4XTdK2Lndgw7DGpcd4QfcF0npcwv7ZHSKXVf47BEhN17u7n9zKVIOBXgOWcAJG5g9 dHEOIFgKVII0jQLoNJx31fyngaRddo4rAwzdQBhftSOdz+HQ1FsCuA4QVrlu2zDWgBoHT8BHo aNwG9z5jy3rr2tBIKCr4/ODY3d58PW0XohZAvbHQJuH6HJLsjSD0Mgle2GLxuYszC2W3cgCHq DSQrCqc58HfxrpZEB6+n3eHwQenSUKqY+AcvdN3QgCNeUsdEBiYbT1MSPm5CJ5RlpwcoxpXFB rfjhziXO26SadR77sH/dN2oC+zqWpub4FCPZDBfy81P7wZvOy63OhePGs10NrbYH3+9xdzIwp 3BbGdCKlStmB1jCtAWpc5QoJx6U36CjAaUBqomJu/u8kqJTmiVNuGg= Message-ID-Hash: KS745SGJCK55LV45K7F2S2LYOR323BFU X-Message-ID-Hash: KS745SGJCK55LV45K7F2S2LYOR323BFU X-MailFrom: luther.johnson@makerlisp.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: What do you currently use for your primary OS at home? List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Oops, wrong thread, sorry. On 03/07/2024 08:57 PM, Luther Johnson wrote: > I believe the first Minix C compilers were based on the Amsterdam > Compiler Kit, so that's another early source. > > On 03/07/2024 08:42 PM, Larry McVoy wrote: >> On Thu, Mar 07, 2024 at 08:15:43PM -0500, Jeffry R. Abramson wrote: >>> On Thu, 2024-03-07 at 13:08 +0000, Ben Kallus wrote: >>>> What about Linux is too bloated, in your opinion? Is it the kernel >>>> itself, or the programs that often go with it? If it's the former, >>>> OpenBSD may be a good choice. If it's the latter, I would look into a >>>> minimal distribution (e.g. Alpine, Void, arguably Arch) paired with a >>>> tiling window manager (e.g. Sway, dwm). >>>> >>>> -Ben >>> The bloated part? IMHO I would say systemd, pulseaudio, NetworkManager= , >>> KDE, GNOME, Cinnamon. ??Even though Cinnamon is the desktop I use. ??M= y >>> wife's laptop finally died ie. Windows got so crudded up with stuff >>> that Outlook couldn't send mail and I just refused to try and fix it. >>> ??I gave her my old PC with Debian and configured Cinnamon to look lik= e >>> Windows 7. ??All she does with it is web and email so all I really had >>> to do was setup Firefox and Evolution and tell her it was Windows. >>> >>> As far as the kernel goes, I rebuilt the stock kernel that Debian uses >>> just for kicks. ??It took 25 minutes on a 16-thread system with SSD >>> storage, source tree plus build output occupies 26G, pretty bloaty. ??= I >>> just refreshed most of my infrastructure and in the process switched >>> from xfs/LVM to ZFS so it may be time to make the switch back to >>> FreeBSD if I retain enough muscle memory. >> So I'm a SunOS guy, got there just after SunOS 4.0, contributed to 4.1, >> really contributed to 4.1.1 and 4.1.3. I loved SunOS. >> >> FreeBSD and me got reconnected when Netflix wanted to hire me a while >> back. While the kernel may be OK (it's not, ask me how I know, I >> walked the code), FreeBSD is stuck in the 1980s. Raise your hand >> if you have installed FreeBSD in the last 20 years. That "UI" >> for partitioning the disks, so arcane. The whole install experience >> is _awful_. >> >> SunOS was a bug fixed BSD, so I really loved BSD. But BSD is so dead >> it is not even funny. Linux is light years ahead. Here is an example >> from more than 20 years ago. I was installing RedHat Linux and the >> machine I was installing on didn't have a mouse. The installer was >> graphical and it was just easier to tab through the options than go >> find a mouse. >> >> I'd love it if BSD had kept up but it has not. Linux is way better. >> Yeah, all the bloat is annoying but we are not running on 64KB PDP-lls. >> L1 is that size, L2 and L3 are bigger. Main memory is many orders of >> magnitude bigger, I'm typing this on a 32GB memory laptop. It's fine. >