From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.6 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (minnie.tuhs.org [50.116.15.146]) by inbox.vuxu.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D2A20238DF for ; Fri, 8 Mar 2024 04:57:53 +0100 (CET) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5FA3343350; Fri, 8 Mar 2024 13:57:49 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mout.perfora.net (mout.perfora.net [74.208.4.196]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B65B04326B for ; Fri, 8 Mar 2024 13:57:43 +1000 (AEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=makerlisp.com; s=s1-ionos; t=1709870263; x=1710475063; i=luther.johnson@makerlisp.com; bh=Ie/BAbnsKsOCyD56wbWRLhqxkqvJeXpn0cRlrgfOwg0=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:Subject:To:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To; b=d4yvjx1X+L4IV3WaW388NYrseyfHBafttS/BNZcjyw4FI+D8qqQH4Wp7talih1Em 9Z+JrMvYX4NnGtwfVem6nInDhoD0QpYWPM6jR4I/VuGFmCAkArwPEUVWP49mCDFBZ gimNyumEQKHhYERS/3tXUh2s5ZNKvPwxa6Oy7RlmqWt75Ao/tgrX2jL9EGzQ8No/n ATAMDPcQkBowayUrPTPwxK/5LZYQEzNlM0meVWk+/dTGcuklarmw1an4Ht4nk3g9C Q2SrkfkEpI2SbMPKbA+qMSzBgOtFR4rFQVG+lTgQips22fgW1ByT9mfkuihtCXHzC KGTye0MciDvNRBZ13Q== X-UI-Sender-Class: 55c96926-9e95-11ee-ae09-1f7a4046a0f6 Received: from makerlispvps ([74.208.29.250]) by mrelay.perfora.net (mreueus003 [74.208.5.2]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0MGkbP-1reMsh3gNF-00DTZ0 for ; Fri, 08 Mar 2024 04:57:42 +0100 Received: from [192.168.234.134] (unknown [172.58.88.31]) by makerlispvps (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 0CCE48B51B for ; Fri, 8 Mar 2024 03:57:41 +0000 (UTC) To: tuhs@tuhs.org References: <9eb334edeb7568193000f8755704af7799169b17.camel@gmail.com> <789486d8dae3335166640461f7885bf9cf6043cf.camel@gmail.com> <20240308034259.GS2252@mcvoy.com> From: Luther Johnson Message-ID: <724f8deb-1e73-2356-0350-83ec8bd17671@makerlisp.com> Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2024 20:57:39 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20240308034259.GS2252@mcvoy.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:EiTl0xEdXg2OcfafDt1//tPVjqtZgFX7IKews+555yQetfXzbro Hc9AhLCOjPDRUUBkTow1SLFXTji8RZ6UvPvuPc3zP1AW9SBxOoGH5TA14M4f6ZzqLCANpst Ga/yJevqkMe9cEM505Y/oontScp5nNr41miu1XHWKsTV6UaxUDarv+4DLgd0xzAkl5R7qvb fvEcO3EYXBf//Eox+wXRQ== UI-OutboundReport: notjunk:1;M01:P0:6W/QxHrWf7Q=;/9TGY7QlV9uJjD6NOQIuCwTCTAZ gpOrMwD0gT6MsRmmvZB2LKZAZQOpVPEI5A2/kJsb/iBFkz9tgO5zaCadDKUD0tBat3S+nTW0k NAGJoDHe1OsQxJCfWddrf9u6rbman/I5Gi/5XQ7ZPkFR8pxgl71TJROKjAXXxY9jw36XcrBkr 8ukgO3AYRuRf7Shehd7nScwlbuccKEO0Tf/Pf5hTcJXxThoioJDA1QbA3R/IdnLdJhl7nmUTp Jw06pR8XBpo+tQS9NLp2ulfOYc+cndGRUWp0Qq3LYrJu3fI3/I0ERMWnLjWZpSxiMCogTK56k 3eF0Jig2OJIGNtE9CM/FSmnEm9Of8h0L2bXCDj5LSLjK5J9ZeYuy5/BqTD+hl2BOyUQ835ylw TNCMjYJohUAQBtHCFNshPyiK9/m6ilgUxbHx6VJ7OxOHN2CSaYUNAGq6kysJIgLaIt4VGZoCR uWpfnMH90mcuWuC9v7xcL534V2+nXo49duvbn9rbpxnlpsE+j22iS72iX7SqVtx/e4HC5Sbi4 YT5R4Q3/KoGR8Ejm2hekisLHI+oRmLJJOi5QIFrfKLfcYv8s4Rulp/Xi+i0+uR07q/DrKVuSU pL5aM/Dw/Y/m8ctsAVCMv3eraGFNDxrhLSIzqkEGysMt75P8GDP+8xKhWlW6K1ZoVcCE4+aVp VsHER/IPv+J6BF4EtmITWJGSHIDaijqmIGeZ8J3+ID+jh19EbnR3WwQ3P7Dg7b8JDgB68iGPf AQL5QLMQv8eWoIMykWkApLFnsVWhojpd9wlE6ULyRtKRnnwckbwbKg= Message-ID-Hash: JKEZNKPXX75UA7F53DQ5TCPKUSKMWJG7 X-Message-ID-Hash: JKEZNKPXX75UA7F53DQ5TCPKUSKMWJG7 X-MailFrom: luther.johnson@makerlisp.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: What do you currently use for your primary OS at home? List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: I believe the first Minix C compilers were based on the Amsterdam Compiler Kit, so that's another early source. On 03/07/2024 08:42 PM, Larry McVoy wrote: > On Thu, Mar 07, 2024 at 08:15:43PM -0500, Jeffry R. Abramson wrote: >> On Thu, 2024-03-07 at 13:08 +0000, Ben Kallus wrote: >>> What about Linux is too bloated, in your opinion? Is it the kernel >>> itself, or the programs that often go with it? If it's the former, >>> OpenBSD may be a good choice. If it's the latter, I would look into a >>> minimal distribution (e.g. Alpine, Void, arguably Arch) paired with a >>> tiling window manager (e.g. Sway, dwm). >>> >>> -Ben >> The bloated part? IMHO I would say systemd, pulseaudio, NetworkManager, >> KDE, GNOME, Cinnamon. ??Even though Cinnamon is the desktop I use. ??My >> wife's laptop finally died ie. Windows got so crudded up with stuff >> that Outlook couldn't send mail and I just refused to try and fix it. >> ??I gave her my old PC with Debian and configured Cinnamon to look like >> Windows 7. ??All she does with it is web and email so all I really had >> to do was setup Firefox and Evolution and tell her it was Windows. >> >> As far as the kernel goes, I rebuilt the stock kernel that Debian uses >> just for kicks. ??It took 25 minutes on a 16-thread system with SSD >> storage, source tree plus build output occupies 26G, pretty bloaty. ??I >> just refreshed most of my infrastructure and in the process switched >> from xfs/LVM to ZFS so it may be time to make the switch back to >> FreeBSD if I retain enough muscle memory. > So I'm a SunOS guy, got there just after SunOS 4.0, contributed to 4.1, > really contributed to 4.1.1 and 4.1.3. I loved SunOS. > > FreeBSD and me got reconnected when Netflix wanted to hire me a while > back. While the kernel may be OK (it's not, ask me how I know, I > walked the code), FreeBSD is stuck in the 1980s. Raise your hand > if you have installed FreeBSD in the last 20 years. That "UI" > for partitioning the disks, so arcane. The whole install experience > is _awful_. > > SunOS was a bug fixed BSD, so I really loved BSD. But BSD is so dead > it is not even funny. Linux is light years ahead. Here is an example > from more than 20 years ago. I was installing RedHat Linux and the > machine I was installing on didn't have a mouse. The installer was > graphical and it was just easier to tab through the options than go > find a mouse. > > I'd love it if BSD had kept up but it has not. Linux is way better. > Yeah, all the bloat is annoying but we are not running on 64KB PDP-lls. > L1 is that size, L2 and L3 are bigger. Main memory is many orders of > magnitude bigger, I'm typing this on a 32GB memory laptop. It's fine.