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[173.63.241.243]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id pi36-20020a05620a37a400b007854018044bsm8197093qkn.134.2024.03.07.17.27.17 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Thu, 07 Mar 2024 17:27:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from prodp20z.jrabramson.org (prodp20z.jrabramson.org [192.168.100.24]) by mail.jrabramson.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D772080F3E9; Thu, 7 Mar 2024 20:27:16 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <93bff23afe8639fef322a7a06ed311d939ddcb29.camel@gmail.com> From: "Jeffry R. Abramson" To: Marc Rochkind Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2024 20:27:16 -0500 In-Reply-To: References: <9a5a5684-065b-8986-04b5-e2ddb5e080d1@makerlisp.com> <13a5158a-9657-e519-e88b-98f1d700c190@makerlisp.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=-H7Hgu2GB6XQA73PrKIYN" User-Agent: Evolution 3.46.4-2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID-Hash: NTXXATQNUK3LOL4RDX4NFBVDYT6E7PW3 X-Message-ID-Hash: NTXXATQNUK3LOL4RDX4NFBVDYT6E7PW3 X-MailFrom: jeffryrabramson@gmail.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: tuhs@tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Reply-To: jeffryrabramson@gmail.com Subject: [TUHS] Re: History of non-Bell C compilers? List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: --=-H7Hgu2GB6XQA73PrKIYN Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In grad school in the early 80's I was developing instrumentation built around a CompuPro S-100 system running CP/M-86. =C2=A0I used the Computer Innovations C compiler=C2=A0https://www.clipshop.ca/c86/intro.htm=C2=A0, wo= nder if I still have a copy on 8-inch floppies somewhere. On Thu, 2024-03-07 at 17:24 -0700, Marc Rochkind wrote: > I got my first=C2=A0 computer in 1981, when I was still at Bell Labs. A > Zenith, as I recall, running CP/M 80. There was a C-like compiler, > but it was a subset. I think that computer had a z80 chip, so it > wasn't an x86. >=20 > Then I got an IBM PC in 1982, with an 8088 (16-bit word, 8-bit bus), > and I'm pretty sure the first real C compiler was Lattice C. > Microsoft picked it up and called it Microsoft C. Then, maybe a > couple of years later, they came out with their own C compiler, > written in-house, I think. (As I recall, I got my Lattice C compiler, > which was very expensive, for free for writing a review for BYTE > Magazine, but I can't find the review in my office or online, so > maybe I'm imagining that. Or maybe I never finished the review or > they didn't print it.) >=20 > I had an early Macintosh, too, and used Lightspeed C. I think it was > essentially complete C. It was a whole IDE, incredibly fast, and I > used it for commercial applications for the Mac. I continued to use > that until Apple bought Next and revised their product line to use > NextStep. Then I used what Apple had, but it was Objective-C (blend > of Smalltalk=C2=A0and=C2=A0C) which is what you wrote NextStep apps in. I= think > we used Objective-C for Mac work until the early 1990s, when I > stopped writing native Mac apps. >=20 > Lots of missing details here, I'm sure. >=20 > The August 1983 issue of BYTE Magazine was all about C, and has three > articles reviewing C compilers for CP/M 86, the IBM PC, and CP/M 80. > There's also an article called "The C Language and Models for Systems > Programming" by two guys who know about that stuff,=C2=A0 Stephen C. > Johnson and Brian W. Kernighan. Here's a link to the > issue:=C2=A0https://archive.org/details/byte-magazine-1983-08 >=20 > Marc >=20 > On Thu, Mar 7, 2024 at 4:45=E2=80=AFPM Tom Lyon wrote: > > I know of Plauger as a Kernighan co-author, so I did a search on > > AbeBooks and found - a lot of science fiction!=C2=A0 Must investigate. > >=20 > > On Thu, Mar 7, 2024 at 3:27=E2=80=AFPM Luther Johnson > > wrote: > > > Oops, misspelled Mr. Plauger's name, pardon me, that's "P.J. > > > Plauger". > > >=20 > > > On 03/07/2024 04:24 PM, Luther Johnson wrote: > > > > I don't have any personal tales, but I remember that P.J. > > > Plaugher's > > > > company, "Whitesmiths", C compiler was an early, and > > > influential, > > > > non-AT&T C compiler. > > > > > > > > On 03/07/2024 04:14 PM, Tom Lyon wrote: > > > >> For no good reason, I've been wondering about the early > > > history of C > > > >> compilers that were not derived from Ritchie, Johnson, and > > > Snyder at > > > >> Bell.=C2=A0 Especially for x86. Anyone have tales? > > > >> Were any of those compilers ever used to port UNIX? > > > > > > >=20 >=20 >=20 > --=20 > My new email address is mrochkind@gmail.com --=-H7Hgu2GB6XQA73PrKIYN Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
In grad school in the early 80's I was develo= ping instrumentation built around a CompuPro S-100 system running CP/M-86. =  I used the Computer Innovations C compiler https://www.clipshop.ca/c86/intro.htm = ;, wonder if I still have a copy on 8-inch floppies somewhere.
On Thu, 2024-03-07 at 17:24 -0700, Marc Rochkind wrote:
<= blockquote type=3D"cite" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex; border-left:2px #729fc= f solid;padding-left:1ex">
I got my first  computer in= 1981, when I was still at Bell Labs. A Zenith, as I recall, running CP/M 8= 0. There was a C-like compiler, but it was a subset. I think that computer = had a z80 chip, so it wasn't an x86.

Then I got an IBM P= C in 1982, with an 8088 (16-bit word, 8-bit bus), and I'm pretty sure the f= irst real C compiler was Lattice C. Microsoft picked it up and called it Mi= crosoft C. Then, maybe a couple of years later, they came out with their ow= n C compiler, written in-house, I think. (As I recall, I got my Lattice C c= ompiler, which was very expensive, for free for writing a review for BYTE M= agazine, but I can't find the review in my office or online, so maybe I'm i= magining that. Or maybe I never finished the review or they didn't print it= .)

I had an early Macintosh, too, and used Lightsp= eed C. I think it was essentially complete C. It was a whole IDE, incredibl= y fast, and I used it for commercial applications for the Mac. I continued = to use that until Apple bought Next and revised their product line to use N= extStep. Then I used what Apple had, but it was Objective-C (blend of Small= talk and C) which is what you wrote NextStep apps in. I think we = used Objective-C for Mac work until the early 1990s, when I stopped writing= native Mac apps.

Lots of missing details here, I'= m sure.

The August 1983 issue of BYTE Magazine was= all about C, and has three articles reviewing C compilers for CP/M 86, the= IBM PC, and CP/M 80. There's also an article called "The C Language and Mo= dels for Systems Programming" by two guys who know about that stuff,  = Stephen C. Johnson and Brian W. Kernighan. Here's a link to the issue: = ;https://arch= ive.org/details/byte-magazine-1983-08

Marc

On Thu, Mar 7, 2024 at 4:45=E2=80=AFPM Tom Lyon <pugs78@gmail.com> wrote:
I know of Plauger as a Kernighan co-aut= hor, so I did a search on AbeBooks and found - a lot of science fiction!&nb= sp; Must investigate.

On Thu, Mar 7, 2024 at 3:27=E2=80=AFPM = Luther Johnson <luther.johnson@makerlisp.com> wrote:
Oops, misspelled Mr. Plauger's name, pardon me, that'= s "P.J. Plauger".

On 03/07/2024 04:24 PM, Luther Johnson = wrote:
> I don't have any personal tales, but I remember that P.J. Pl= augher's
> company, "Whitesmiths", C compiler was an early, and influ= ential,
> non-AT&T C compiler.
>
> On 03/07/2024 04:1= 4 PM, Tom Lyon wrote:
>> For no good reason, I've been wondering a= bout the early history of C
>> compilers that were not derived fro= m Ritchie, Johnson, and Snyder at
>> Bell.  Especially for x8= 6. Anyone have tales?
>> Were any of those compilers ever used to = port UNIX?
>

=


--
My new email address is mrochkind@gmail.com

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