From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.6 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,HTML_FONT_LOW_CONTRAST,HTML_MESSAGE, MAILING_LIST_MULTI,T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (minnie.tuhs.org [IPv6:2600:3c01:e000:146::1]) by inbox.vuxu.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B03542650C for ; Wed, 13 Mar 2024 16:54:03 +0100 (CET) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D5DBB427CC; Thu, 14 Mar 2024 01:53:58 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-ua1-x92c.google.com (mail-ua1-x92c.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::92c]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3ACF2424A5 for ; Thu, 14 Mar 2024 01:53:53 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-ua1-x92c.google.com with SMTP id a1e0cc1a2514c-7cedcea89a0so706469241.1 for ; Wed, 13 Mar 2024 08:53:53 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ccc.com; s=google; t=1710345232; x=1710950032; darn=tuhs.org; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=9AHoYyob7SDepUG8BZtj6WtKhjPR6M3j5JzqD8jp0P0=; b=ZfWp4GYwDe2i/2mpimXB66PPLKlPXDlsBaweVT2Avy8OUDeVm4iDOOrcJvh84jDgkf Bj2+11QtbWrSQUDOT8U7j783bwbdga0j6JfLUUjQ37p8xto38IwvxNsK3h5F4LZOmqyw J/8sJcuZR45PDt9Ox4u+X0FK0EVmeWWwxVNtY= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1710345232; x=1710950032; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=9AHoYyob7SDepUG8BZtj6WtKhjPR6M3j5JzqD8jp0P0=; b=Rtc519s5rhcTvjaP+b9S/cil0MZ95ac9zlHx79P5QObD83uuyh+XqUhsPMckVtqdL7 h/c4pW822pivBQG0WYV3k/5VTmMMB2ngA5M2cZoIC/pcFP1Tt04UFE4SV3FHSZ/PfHjk r8bb6RM0396y8O8BKeprUVTOJYq/AglGq0h3HjlWcp7ZcnMTa/G5kvrd43NiL+v2jjiq ckmue7AjAENHWUg2Q5Tfi26LSgWC6VMGk2LQsIE1oxdi0R1k29vWcQ7CmNaMe5M7kzN8 dq77A/M3JsiYuIXiwsi1rZEZA32d2aJRbvUPmR8LZR9PT3YoXECXw5Tiv3+vT4VkOpSp DS8Q== X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCWwigxidKEsqYbiA8oLWW2szKbzk5yt8+1QBHqYc6Dd4cfIst/oDY7LzBowroDDAHmPhM8zp0o4sWjYgbys X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YxDOjWYk+LJNsECJOECTpQVP68PmiLULjHZX5msKDSqit8lzmlo 24sDEtySjdXHasBTJFrfbWEbDr1EzzqVdDU4CgUwwJs/zaWLx5uVlW0ewGAVsyNXkh5JS1k+6y6 W719IKVg1ZXt4ccUlwF6yWpLEaKeGLu8V2Wwg X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IGuokZ8zc9pGe9PmEZwei15Z22uM7c8NRs+hx9zo+TkouBMoIODk6y0lpccC6KMUIWb9yrsEen3bJA85tmD4kw= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6122:c83:b0:4d4:2176:6b6a with SMTP id ba3-20020a0561220c8300b004d421766b6amr433007vkb.8.1710345232166; Wed, 13 Mar 2024 08:53:52 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <12CFE503-ACC8-44B5-BA41-28DB5450E521@planet.nl> In-Reply-To: From: Clem Cole Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2024 11:53:16 -0400 Message-ID: To: Marc Rochkind Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000001d31406138cc8e4" Message-ID-Hash: MUXQIUONFON5V2VCFUEGA7THQGKE4LNP X-Message-ID-Hash: MUXQIUONFON5V2VCFUEGA7THQGKE4LNP X-MailFrom: clemc@ccc.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: "tuhs@tuhs.org" X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: History of non-Bell C compilers? List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: --00000000000001d31406138cc8e4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks. Fair enough. You mentioned PC/IX as *ISC's System III* I'm not sure I ever ran ISC's System III port=E2=80=94only the V.3 port - w= hich was the basis for their ATT, Intel, and IBM work and later sold directly. I'm fairly sure ISC also called that port PC/IX, but they might have added something to say with 386 in the name=E2=80=94I've forgotten. [Heinz probab= ly can clarify here]. Anyway, this is likely the source of my thinking. FWIW: The copy of PC/IX for the 386 (which I still have on a system I have not booted in ages) definitely has VPIX. =E1=90=A7 On Wed, Mar 13, 2024 at 11:28=E2=80=AFAM Marc Rochkind wrote: > @Clem Cole , > > I don't remember what it was. But, the XT had an 8088, so certainly no 38= 6 > technology was involved. > > Marc > > On Wed, Mar 13, 2024 at 8:38=E2=80=AFAM Clem Cole wrote: > >> @Marc >> >> On Tue, Mar 12, 2024 at 1:18=E2=80=AFPM Marc Rochkind >> wrote: >> >>> At a trade show, I bought a utility that allowed me to run PC-DOS under >>> PC/IX. I'm sure it wasn't a virtual machine. Rather, it just swapped ba= ck >>> and forth. (Guessing a bit there.) >>> >> Hmm ... you sure it was not either VPIX or DOS/Merge -- ISC built VPIX i= n >> cooperation with the Phoenix Tech folks for PC/IX. I always bought a cop= y >> with it, but it may have been an option. LCC did DOS/Merge originally = as >> part of the AIX work for IBM and would become a core part of OS/2 Warp >> IIRC. Both Merge and VPIX had some rough edges but certainly worked fin= e >> for DOS 3.3 programs. The issue tended to be Win and DOS graphics-based >> programs/games that played fast and loose, bypassing the DOS OS interfac= e >> and accessing the HW directly. For instance, I never got the flight >> simulator (Air War over Germany) for Dad's WWII plane (P-47 Thunderbolt)= to >> run under either (i.e., only under DOS directly on the HW. FWIW: In that >> mode, Dad said the simulator flew a lot like how he remembered it). >> >> Both Merge and VPIX used the 386 VM support and a bunch of work in the >> core OS. Heinz would have to fill us in here. The version of the 386 >> port ISC delivered to AT&T and Intel only had the kernel changes to allo= w >> the VM support for VPIX to be linked in, but it was not there. IICR (a= nd >> I'm not sure I am) is that Merge could run on PC/IX also, but you had to >> replace a couple of kernel modules. It certainly would work on the AT&T >> and Intel versions. >> =E1=90=A7 >> > > > -- > *My new email address is mrochkind@gmail.com * > --00000000000001d31406138cc8e4 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thanks.=C2=A0 Fair enough.=C2= =A0 You mentioned PC/IX as ISC's System III

I'm not = sure I ever ran ISC's System III port=E2=80=94only the V.3 port - which= was the basis for their ATT, Intel, and IBM work and later sold directly.= =C2=A0 =C2=A0I'm fairly sure = ISC also called that port PC/IX, = but they might have added something to say with 386 in the name=E2=80=94I've forgotten. [Heinz probably = can clarify here]. Anyway, this=C2=A0is likely the source of my thinking. F= WIW:=C2=A0=C2=A0The copy of PC/IX= =C2=A0for the 386 (which I still have on a system I have not booted in ages= ) definitely has VPIX.
3D""=E1=90=A7

On Wed, Mar 13,= 2024 at 11:28=E2=80=AFAM Marc Rochkind <mrochkind@gmail.com> wrote:
@Clem Cole,

I don't remember wha= t it was. But, the XT had an 8088, so certainly no 386 technology was invol= ved.

Marc

On Wed, Mar 13, 2024 at 8:38=E2=80= =AFAM Clem Cole <clem= c@ccc.com> wrote:

On Tue, Mar 12, 2024 at 1:18=E2= =80=AFPM Marc Rochkind <mrochkind@gmail.com> wrote:
At a trade sh= ow, I bought a utility that allowed me to run PC-DOS under PC/IX. I'm s= ure it wasn't a virtual machine. Rather, it just swapped back and forth= . (Guessing a bit there.)
Hmm ... you sure it was not either VPIX or DOS/Merge -- ISC bu= ilt VPIX in cooperation with the Phoenix Tech folks for PC/IX. I always=C2= =A0bought=C2=A0a copy with it, but it may have been an option.=C2=A0 =C2=A0= LCC did DOS/Merge originally as part of the AIX work for IBM and would beco= me a core part of OS/2 Warp IIRC.=C2=A0 Both Merge and VPIX had some rough = edges but certainly worked fine for DOS 3.3 programs.=C2=A0 The issue tende= d to be Win and DOS graphics-based programs/games that played fast and loos= e, bypassing the DOS OS interface and accessing the HW directly.=C2=A0 For = instance, I never got the flight simulator (Air War over Germany) for Dad&#= 39;s WWII plane (P-47 Thunderbolt) to run under either (i.e., only under D= OS directly on the HW. FWIW: In that mode, Dad said the simulator flew a = lot like how he remembered it).

Both Me= rge and VPIX used the 386 VM support and a bunch of work in the core OS.=C2= =A0 =C2=A0Heinz would have to fill us in here.=C2=A0 The version of the 386= port ISC delivered to AT&T and Intel only had the kernel changes to al= low the VM support for VPIX to be linked in, but it was not there.=C2=A0 = =C2=A0IICR (and I'm not sure I am) is that Merge could run on PC/IX als= o, but you had to replace a couple of kernel modules.=C2=A0 It certainly wo= uld work on the AT&T and Intel versions.
3D""=E1=90=A7


--
My new email address is mrochkind@gmail.com
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