From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.6 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (minnie.tuhs.org [IPv6:2600:3c01:e000:146::1]) by inbox.vuxu.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 698B82D4F4 for ; Mon, 18 Mar 2024 15:13:07 +0100 (CET) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A76BB425C2; Tue, 19 Mar 2024 00:13:03 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-vk1-xa2f.google.com (mail-vk1-xa2f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::a2f]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F2F7842453 for ; Tue, 19 Mar 2024 00:12:59 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-vk1-xa2f.google.com with SMTP id 71dfb90a1353d-4d4585339ccso633956e0c.1 for ; Mon, 18 Mar 2024 07:12:59 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=dartmouth.edu; s=google1; t=1710771179; x=1711375979; darn=tuhs.org; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=CBul81xFeH3x/ijd/+zOBVpLuwiQkW0hxNQBxd7ducI=; b=NGkmlXf5EdiCXYq5bZjj+GwCPU5oTsB4r4+4SJv6BHTf/W7f8kjBK2aywJT1ma55Zt FMsWQzp/ZoAO+kF67fwLRL3NPHso3zfrXyTgDalJoKWSahiss1F5SFRwFCF4QolthHPD iLpZrECmTOkF4QcFgmI9oOhzd0sgda48axIxyn33ksF/PM/zbWsrLiQxxGznxINxvQZs b9qBEaCw3BmggM/A20wS1Qoe5+Z4i367yPds8Ox4lafuNzQYN45WYHwCv/iclgbxS+q/ G5YHMgUIWtONJhjudnqPHEzZnmDXqvuT8VHxTzEP3VHq0m97ZNYUSF8IJreVC1VSIUgE WgWg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1710771179; x=1711375979; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=CBul81xFeH3x/ijd/+zOBVpLuwiQkW0hxNQBxd7ducI=; b=WbZfvCaAFBP8ckuMLZBzzROHzUoiTa+hhTeUg5z0dTzQuP8DIEaMz1qUgjBD7u6NaG Fj8dDlCIDcp/ztFafuJovC4uHBuOKvZrlqudYqkQ8vTl+pT260MjxeKqiNlmgf4N3OjV k8UrTSNp6EuHjfTYyCwm06Q8z3oGUchCnVuqlANXT26Tw++aEqa666LZsTRmcvjJuIFH eh7PXuyiQveAzv/JTXtWOmtKk2+7GovhTaVLXiy8Ppr8tuOK7PU4+liLt6MOGN2nJ5kF HNxyG+o0w6VNV7iTyf8zWwItYPnht/uTz+tDp+BJ51mc62eSV08IUUU27h8xC+E26vkt LWTA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yxr4ZtZiFmXMKleZzzWA947m0/9PFDhRkxpBrMcw/dSdl117dsd oYToq3Q75iYRH/IhDjbbbMKNROaBoNWmHXvufjrVFqQdeulqbuBPIf5jYtcSICw53d+4fOwOgVV ZJiKjjmXeUUuTUf6ptZtzbIOS1tjZQ2D4UNLr6+tRgYWzctcu X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IE0OeLpD98ElyFNTX3mvAqhv8FHhJgQXRtO+gC0IoXhU+a98fHkg/oKffR9f6awASQaTr6Wgntq9HZanGH/gOU= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6122:3187:b0:4d4:17db:4f46 with SMTP id ch7-20020a056122318700b004d417db4f46mr10907050vkb.4.1710771179089; Mon, 18 Mar 2024 07:12:59 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Douglas McIlroy Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2024 10:12:42 -0400 Message-ID: To: Dan Cross Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000006c20530613eff4d4" Message-ID-Hash: TZYQODFI736S67DLUUOBVRNHP4IAVHWN X-Message-ID-Hash: TZYQODFI736S67DLUUOBVRNHP4IAVHWN X-MailFrom: douglas.mcilroy@dartmouth.edu X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: TUHS main list X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: The Mark Williams Company and Coherent List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: --0000000000006c20530613eff4d4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Yes. The lawyer was walking on air when he got back to the office to tell about it. If I may digress into a personal story, somewhat pre-Unix. (I was nine years old.) I remember my father showing exactly the same excitement when he returned from testifying as an expert witness for the plaintiff in a near-electrocution case that left the victim paralyzed. A visitor touring a substation had pointed to something to ask what it was, and got hit with a 33,000-volt arc. The defense lawyer tried to discredit the expert, a professor who formerly had been an electrical engineer for a utility company. Lawyer: Have you ever designed a 33,000-volt indoor substation? Prof: I have. Lawyer, changing tactics after an unexpected answer: Do you recognize this book? Prof: I do. Some discussion describing the book, an inventory of utility facilities, for the benefit of the jury. Lawyer, with a hint of triumph: The inventory shows that your former employer has no such substation. Prof: Yes, after a few years we decided it was too dangerous and decommissioned it. ... Lawyer, showing a photo of the busbar that arced: Wouldn't someone have to stretch unusually high to get near to it? Prof: No. That picture was taken exactly [some measurement like 2'3"] from the floor. Lawyer: Do you mean to tell me you know where the picture was taken from, without having been present when it was taken? Prof, pointing to a blown-up engineering drawing on the courtroom wall: This horizontal pipe is seen end-on in the photo. It is dimensioned as being 2'3" from the floor. The plaintiff won. Doug On Mon, Mar 18, 2024 at 8:28=E2=80=AFAM Dan Cross wrote: > On Fri, Mar 15, 2024 at 5:24=E2=80=AFPM Douglas McIlroy > wrote: > > > > > There was lawyerly concern about the code being stolen. > > > > Not always misplaced. There was a guy in Boston who sold Unix look-alik= e > programs. A quick look at the binary revealed perfect correlation with ou= r > C source. Coincidentally, DEC had hired this person as a consultant in > connection with cross-licensing negotiations with AT&T. Socializing at th= e > end of a day's negotiations, our lawyer somehow managed to turn the > conversation to software piracy. He discussed a case he was working on, > and happened to have some documents about it in his briefcase. He pulled > out a page disassembled binary and a page of source code and showed them = to > the consultant. > > > > After a little study, the consultant confidently opined that the binary > was obviously compiled from that source. "Would it surprise you," the > lawyer asked, "if I told you that this is yours and that is ours?" The > consultant did not attend the following day's meeting. > > Fantastic story, and talk about a true "Perry Mason" moment for the > lawyer. I'm sure it was also fertile material for stories at cocktail > parties for the rest of his days. > > - Dan C. > --0000000000006c20530613eff4d4 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Yes. The lawyer was walking on air when he got back to the= office to tell about it.

If I may digress into a person= al story, somewhat pre-Unix. (I was nine years old.)=C2=A0 I remember my fa= ther showing exactly the same excitement when he returned from testifying a= s an expert witness for the plaintiff in a near-electrocution case that lef= t the victim paralyzed. A visitor touring a substation had pointed to somet= hing to ask what it was, and got hit with a 33,000-volt arc. The defense la= wyer tried to discredit the expert, a professor who formerly had been an el= ectrical engineer for a utility company.

Lawyer: H= ave you ever designed a 33,000-volt indoor substation?
Prof: I ha= ve.
Lawyer, changing tactics after an unexpected answer: Do you r= ecognize this book?
Prof: I do.
Some discussion=C2=A0de= scribing the book, an=C2=A0 inventory of utility facilities, for the benefi= t of the jury.
Lawyer, with a hint of triumph: The inventory show= s that your former employer has no such substation.
Prof: Yes, af= ter a few years we decided it was too dangerous and decommissioned=C2=A0it.=
...
Lawyer, showing a photo of the busbar that arced: = Wouldn't someone have to stretch unusually high to get near to it?
Prof: No. That picture was taken exactly [some measurement like 2'= ;3"] from the floor.
Lawyer: Do you mean to tell me you know= where the picture was taken from, without having been present when it was = taken?
Prof, pointing to a blown-up engineering drawing on the co= urtroom wall: This horizontal pipe is seen end-on in the photo.=C2=A0It=C2= =A0 is dimensioned as being 2'3" from the floor.

The plaintiff won.

Doug

On Mon, Mar 1= 8, 2024 at 8:28=E2=80=AFAM Dan Cross <crossd@gmail.com> wrote:
On Fri, Mar 15, 2024 at 5:24=E2=80=AFPM Douglas McIlroy <doug= las.mcilroy@dartmouth.edu> wrote:
>
> > There was lawyerly concern about the code being stolen.
>
> Not always misplaced. There was a guy in Boston who sold Unix look-ali= ke programs. A quick look at the binary revealed perfect correlation with o= ur C source. Coincidentally, DEC had hired this person as a consultant in c= onnection with cross-licensing negotiations with AT&T. Socializing at t= he end of a day's negotiations,=C2=A0 our lawyer somehow managed to tur= n the conversation to software piracy. He discussed=C2=A0 a case he was wor= king on, and happened to have some documents about it in his briefcase. He = pulled out a page disassembled binary and a page of source code and showed = them to the consultant.
>
> After a little study, the consultant confidently opined that the binar= y was obviously compiled from that source. "Would it surprise you,&quo= t; the lawyer asked, "if I told you that this is yours and that is our= s?" The consultant did not attend the following day's meeting.

Fantastic story, and talk about a true "Perry Mason" moment for t= he
lawyer. I'm sure it was also fertile material for stories at cocktail parties for the rest of his days.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 - Dan C.
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