From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.6 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED, DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED,FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN,FREEMAIL_FROM, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (minnie.tuhs.org [50.116.15.146]) by inbox.vuxu.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E114C2522A for ; Fri, 8 Mar 2024 02:12:58 +0100 (CET) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 86D654324E; Fri, 8 Mar 2024 11:12:55 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-ua1-x932.google.com (mail-ua1-x932.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::932]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 76B9243149 for ; Fri, 8 Mar 2024 11:12:51 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-ua1-x932.google.com with SMTP id a1e0cc1a2514c-7d130979108so798460241.1 for ; Thu, 07 Mar 2024 17:12:51 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1709860370; x=1710465170; darn=tuhs.org; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=jQCIDoS6ZYuZml0RptRM97X9WIcw4aXarU/iXiUzFdc=; b=UWxP6rkTfQZw5zNv/96dXnTafVGEVCUIAinJqLoE082GZ9wA6cqUV5qXK4nuTedN4u bI2tPhjNRyq9mvf/QZ0qdTqJj2fPE/5g+n7xKO4ASz0wbbWP3HRXofFXT7L748ILuP/q fdMMyo+87q2J2pbL5K4bfEtwUCmcKCpIAa2s2erGwaNHBgwklqEnJh9RaEvheuszusdU UOfVk+RQY0vTPXISB51+E4Ur/6nA5agvHP1nkoMDc+0caVPWKlqa0tijfEWApWIm6fD3 BT/U4qZqq3FiCLRIzLQbMNz8A7R9wP8h4ONhXjET6fRH/HRVLZTX2dsM/qVT2bowgpyo NAbg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1709860370; x=1710465170; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=jQCIDoS6ZYuZml0RptRM97X9WIcw4aXarU/iXiUzFdc=; b=P1Np4NF37mCqlgITJQc7RcqlYsS4EOlQwN+gt2a2WC4p9b2fp5WOXzT3yhoPmHG6jd sjQj5/+zNdza0NUngySnBje217CHIOyhNqR0I3jvHwUK14uQ9AShEN4cN4Yyo5SLkp6K u+Exf1oHah6rc5PEDHm/ptpkQmah+OQyRbnOd45CpMkWyO5VEoZj+Yaiz866FZwKODF0 4NGO6GZtme1IIlyB12yuftQcKyER83kiuffpbOduiDF1uzzdhKHPq/8af8KQtzVmsrAS T2Ealf13yHydA7z/kf5md94357Sryh23iAfT8jWT78+EszfO9cO+KtZBdd5XoHow3R1X L+sA== X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCVgPljrlu4sE6pfgLXkLT2DJ12g4D2wCQesuNV+H4QFN/FT2CSVAPDURao6fE5rRa86z5CbZdYLEcicSqAG X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YytmVTS/D0M/UxiNqarutLlnSUHmSOr+RucBE8mw4+nR9MXWtBs PcN5f4DwddXwXBdsZHcr4VSuFFB9MaO9MdLBaLnKHS8X4c8aHbXOpHCkb6Zlexb8CYE5QMvLKEi ymX7qbB3P4aZGlZYbiBTDFlCTOFk= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IFS6jydH+zG9IZ1mTkd04MLmWEWgiWQ+xSWsPZJ+Pd3POWSwMrjJf+VI1DMCDj6ZNXpALAdwOcVaIHTs3e+fws= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6102:12d2:b0:472:a72c:c4ca with SMTP id jd18-20020a05610212d200b00472a72cc4camr9221788vsb.34.1709860370098; Thu, 07 Mar 2024 17:12:50 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20240307234921.GO2252@mcvoy.com> <8478FB11-64ED-43CE-90AD-6F2011282451@iitbombay.org> In-Reply-To: From: Rob Pike Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2024 12:12:39 +1100 Message-ID: To: Bakul Shah Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000f9b3cb06131be32b" Message-ID-Hash: VJZJZG7NIOZQ2PUT3S4ZDAKE7BGDQH5T X-Message-ID-Hash: VJZJZG7NIOZQ2PUT3S4ZDAKE7BGDQH5T X-MailFrom: robpike@gmail.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: History of non-Bell C compilers? List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: --000000000000f9b3cb06131be32b Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable By the way, the unmatched portability of Plan 9 and Go stems from the way Ken structured that compiler. My talk at GopherCon about the Go assembler describes this architecture and why it worked so well. Others feel that by being unorthodox it is clearly bogus and we are jackasses, but such complainers only notice the difference and don't ask why the difference is there. -rob On Fri, Mar 8, 2024 at 12:10=E2=80=AFPM Rob Pike wrote: > Yes. Ken wrote the first version for the National 32000 (maybe even > 16000?) on the Sequent. He ported to the MIPS when we started Plan 9. > > -rob > > > On Fri, Mar 8, 2024 at 12:08=E2=80=AFPM Bakul Shah = wrote: > >> What is the history of Plan9's C compiler? Was it a from scratch >> implementation? >> >> On Mar 7, 2024, at 4:57=E2=80=AFPM, Rob Pike wrote: >> >> Chris Fraser and Dave Hanson did LLC and wrote a book about it, very >> clean and pedagogically valuable. >> >> >> https://www.amazon.com.au/Retargetable-C-Compiler-Design-Implementation/= dp/0805316701 >> >> -rob >> >> >> On Fri, Mar 8, 2024 at 11:31=E2=80=AFAM Warner Losh wro= te: >> >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Mar 7, 2024 at 5:08=E2=80=AFPM Rich Salz = wrote: >>> >>>> I believe Snyder was an MIT Master's thesis, finished in 1975[1]. >>>> There was a fair amount of C and compiler work at MIT LCS, perhaps JNC= can >>>> post some info. I think Snyder's compiler was used for the MIT PC/IP[2= ] >>>> project; the links at BitSavers imply they are related. PC/IP brought = TCP >>>> and clients to DOS 3 machines and was commercialized as FTP software a= nd >>>> was one of the reasons for the creation of the MIT license[4]. BDS C[3= ] was >>>> done by an MIT drop-out, Leor Zolman. I bought my first motorcycle fro= m him >>>> :) BDS C was used for the first implementations of MINCE (mince is not >>>> complete emacs -- those kinds of acronyms were popular) and Scribble, >>>> downsized clones of emacs and Scribe, respectively. >>>> >>>> [1] http://www.lcs.mit.edu/publications/specpub.php?id=3D717 >>>> [2] https://web.mit.edu/Saltzer/www/publications/pcip-1986.pdf >>>> [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BDS_C >>>> [4] https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/9263265 >>>> >>> >>> Judging from what's at the bitsavers I posted, the source for pcip and >>> this is the backstory to them. >>> >>> Warner >>> >> >> --000000000000f9b3cb06131be32b Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
By the way, the unmatched portability of Plan 9 and Go stems from= the way Ken structured that compiler. My talk at GopherCon about the Go as= sembler describes this architecture and why it worked so well. Others feel = that by being unorthodox it is clearly bogus and we are jackasses, but such= complainers only notice the difference and don't ask why the differenc= e is there.

-rob


On Fri, Mar 8, 2024 at 12:10=E2=80=AFPM Rob Pike = <robpike@gmail.com> wrote:
=
Yes. Ke= n wrote the first version for the National 32000 (maybe even 16000?) on the= Sequent. He ported to the MIPS when we started Plan 9.

-rob


On F= ri, Mar 8, 2024 at 12:08=E2=80=AFPM Bakul Shah <bakul@iitbombay.org> wrote:
What is the histor= y of Plan9's C compiler? Was it a from scratch implementation?

On Mar 7, 2024, at 4:57=E2=80=AFPM= , Rob Pike <robpi= ke@gmail.com> wrote:

Chris Fraser and Dave H= anson did LLC and wrote a book about it, very clean and pedagogically valua= ble.

https://www.amazon.com.au/Re= targetable-C-Compiler-Design-Implementation/dp/0805316701

<= div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif">-rob

<= /div>

On Fri, Mar 8, 2024 at 11:31=E2=80=AFAM Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com> wrote:


On Thu, Mar 7, 2024 at 5:08=E2=80=AFPM Rich Salz <rich.salz@gmail.com&= gt; wrote:
I believe Snyder= was an MIT Master's thesis, finished in 1975[1].=C2=A0 There was a fai= r amount of C and compiler work at MIT LCS, perhaps JNC can post some info.= I think Snyder's compiler was used for the MIT PC/IP[2] project; the l= inks at BitSavers imply they are related. PC/IP brought TCP and clients to = DOS 3 machines and was commercialized as FTP software and was one of the re= asons for the creation of the MIT license[4]. BDS C[3] was done by an MIT d= rop-out, Leor Zolman. I bought my first motorcycle from him :) BDS C was us= ed for the first implementations of MINCE (mince is not complete emacs -- t= hose kinds of acronyms were popular) and Scribble, downsized clones of emac= s and Scribe, respectively.

[2] https://web.mit.edu/Saltzer/www/publications/pcip-1986.pdf<= /div>
=

Judging from what's at the bitsavers I posted, the = source for pcip and this is the backstory=C2=A0to them.

Warner

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