From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Status: No, score=2.9 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED, DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED,FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN,FREEMAIL_FROM, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI, MALFORMED_FREEMAIL,MISSING_HEADERS,T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (minnie.tuhs.org [IPv6:2600:3c01:e000:146::1]) by inbox.vuxu.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 80C212B71F for ; Mon, 11 Mar 2024 21:45:02 +0100 (CET) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 25F6E42892; Tue, 12 Mar 2024 06:44:55 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-wr1-x42a.google.com (mail-wr1-x42a.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::42a]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C97704288B for ; Tue, 12 Mar 2024 06:44:42 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-wr1-x42a.google.com with SMTP id ffacd0b85a97d-33e959d8bc0so1341724f8f.1 for ; Mon, 11 Mar 2024 13:44:42 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1710189881; x=1710794681; darn=tuhs.org; h=cc:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version :from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=Dza3Tl8NY+oac5DDGburck6M6ZkIk7Nz474P14wNVVU=; b=J0ZvQp57uPi+bX7dCpltGYWdXIe0+XdBmSL2SuhJZrEk6SovyRGM0mbDac6ojOP7Hf Xep7XmdMySVwOJeszafDi4Xr9qaZDUed0O+Yx43+OLywnwth+fukLRFzyyWdR11K6vdP BwdaIQ7m+YPp0Cd6ec7ok2eyTgGiO9IZbF/Yp+Z13iUDF3kV71AeHKlMNUzJxUL3BjvQ VggUFxzj2KhehhkB/VZAdYPx6raLv4SfYvs6p/lL8PKJJMpuQP8TvNhI8CT8FBuoSHFI ZwoeOAT5QGOFGwq+rG5mTC9PC06fxxl+KkG7zn+0Jg5nhn0tH3V4dkIcVVKEzJyiMgvL uAIQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1710189881; x=1710794681; h=cc:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version :x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=Dza3Tl8NY+oac5DDGburck6M6ZkIk7Nz474P14wNVVU=; b=PTtAOh6qSzsN5OsGDiUSq88zUAjeLtpHVbhfr2uMiyxG4X8l3f1Anb2L3DroxHZeaB AXqrDIoiZDB6Gqw0SrEDSlL51ag5qqqClREqxj0mw3oULZWAsx05dmt2U6szaGjjVJPe CgZB/fZyCQYuY37CYYL+xdnC6MG/HNJpVe3uEqq3AvOfAxFap99lxCrF23+jV73GDIaC ajhBhAyxpk6AYPxv1jPO/D0NxR6wMBksDlcT3MdrUbWYebZInuCp/K0fvHrebVoI6rBM E853dBYNo39QvZKaUbFeDJmks+yjSwtY+gbAiMdwqAlCMPCszMW93q547MKyLaHeKP+o n9Fw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yw+MnPXl67ehpJ6h6YXFzU9MmZ1i3dqJWPras/jGQuxLMANq1MS Rlu3VsN6v4r1M6c20/0yCQp6Cq/rqbInDdXrF1U3zuljAltrOmoILuX+JOZdSmRCR8ZgZnXDdtm sSrcu+hjiAS94Y/Ju4kegkppflQNV01l3zFM9 X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IHl2FFRF9htIhM3dxJ1+6Gg3hPYy7sOf082VSTHwqrnBSsW48qzL+F2uMPRlBHbgND9R5DRmd56ES/lcxPF1Os= X-Received: by 2002:adf:ec0f:0:b0:33e:7b77:b319 with SMTP id x15-20020adfec0f000000b0033e7b77b319mr6012278wrn.60.1710189880955; Mon, 11 Mar 2024 13:44:40 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <12CFE503-ACC8-44B5-BA41-28DB5450E521@planet.nl> In-Reply-To: <12CFE503-ACC8-44B5-BA41-28DB5450E521@planet.nl> From: Marc Rochkind Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2024 14:44:29 -0600 Message-ID: Cc: "tuhs@tuhs.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000005a5c9f0613689c60" Message-ID-Hash: JVS5PDDM37A7JS72OZIUACTB42TPE4GT X-Message-ID-Hash: JVS5PDDM37A7JS72OZIUACTB42TPE4GT X-MailFrom: mrochkind@gmail.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: History of non-Bell C compilers? List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: --0000000000005a5c9f0613689c60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Since it came up in this thread, here's my review of Coherent in BYTE Magazine (1985): https://www.mrochkind.com/mrochkind/docs/Byte-Pick-Coherent-Theos.pdf Marc On Mon, Mar 11, 2024 at 11:13=E2=80=AFAM Paul Ruizendaal wr= ote: > On Thu, Mar 7, 2024, 4:14=E2=80=AFPM Tom Lyon wrote= : > > > For no good reason, I've been wondering about the early history of C > > compilers that were not derived from Ritchie, Johnson, and Snyder at > Bell. > > Especially for x86. Anyone have tales? > > Were any of those compilers ever used to port UNIX? > > An unusual one would be the =E2=80=9Crevenue bomb=E2=80=9D compiler that = Charles Simonyi > and Richard Brodie did at Microsoft in 1981. > > This compiler was intended to provided a uniform environment for the > menagerie of 8 and 16-bit computers of the era. It compiled to a byte cod= e > which executed through a small interpreter. This by itself was hardly new > of course, but it had some unique features. It generated code in overlays= , > so that it could run a code base larger than 64KB (but it defined only on= e > data segment). It also defined a small set of =E2=80=9Csystem=E2=80=9D co= mmands, that > allowed for uniform I/O. I still have the implementation spec for that > interpreter somewhere. > > This compiler was used for the first versions of Multiplan and Word, and > my understanding is that the byte code engine was later re-used in Visual > Basic. I think the compiler also had a Xenix port, maybe it even was Xeni= x > native (and at this time, Xenix would still essentially have been V7). > > I am not sure to what extent this compiler was independent of the Bell > compilers. It could well be that it was based on PCC, Microsoft was a Uni= x > licensee after all and at the time busy doing ports. On the other hand, > Charles Simonyi would certainly have been capable of creating his own fro= m > scratch. I do know that this compiler preceded Lattice C, the latter of > which was distributed by Microsoft as Microsoft C 1.0. > > Maybe others know more about this Simonyi/Brodie compiler? > > Paul > > Notes: > http://www.memecentral.com/mylife.htm > > https://web.archive.org/web/20080905231519/http://www.computerworld.com/s= oftwaretopics/software/appdev/story/0%2C10801%2C76413%2C00.html > http://seefigure1.com/images/xenix/xenix-timeline.jpg --=20 *My new email address is mrochkind@gmail.com * --0000000000005a5c9f0613689c60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Since it came up in this thread, here's my review of C= oherent in BYTE Magazine (1985):

Marc

On Mon, Mar 11, 2024 at 11:13=E2=80=AFAM Paul Ruizend= aal <pnr@planet.nl> wrote:
On Thu, Mar 7, 2024, = 4:14=E2=80=AFPM Tom Lyon <pugs78 at gmail.com> wrote:

> For no good reason, I've been wondering about the early history of= C
> compilers that were not derived from Ritchie, Johnson, and Snyder at B= ell.
> Especially for x86.=C2=A0 Anyone have tales?
> Were any of those compilers ever used to port UNIX?

An unusual one would be the =E2=80=9Crevenue bomb=E2=80=9D compiler that Ch= arles Simonyi and Richard Brodie did at Microsoft in 1981.

This compiler was intended to provided a uniform environment for the menage= rie of 8 and 16-bit computers of the era. It compiled to a byte code which = executed through a small interpreter. This by itself was hardly new of cour= se, but it had some unique features. It generated code in overlays, so that= it could run a code base larger than 64KB (but it defined only one data se= gment). It also defined a small set of =E2=80=9Csystem=E2=80=9D commands, t= hat allowed for uniform I/O. I still have the implementation spec for that = interpreter somewhere.

This compiler was used for the first versions of Multiplan and Word, and my= understanding is that the byte code engine was later re-used in Visual Bas= ic. I think the compiler also had a Xenix port, maybe it even was Xenix nat= ive (and at this time, Xenix would still essentially have been V7).

I am not sure to what extent this compiler was independent of the Bell comp= ilers. It could well be that it was based on PCC, Microsoft was a Unix lice= nsee after all and at the time busy doing ports. On the other hand, Charles= Simonyi would certainly have been capable of creating his own from scratch= . I do know that this compiler preceded Lattice C, the latter of which was = distributed by Microsoft as Microsoft C 1.0.

Maybe others know more about this Simonyi/Brodie compiler?

Paul

Notes:
http://www.memecentral.com/mylife.htm
https://web.archive.org/web/20080905231= 519/http://www.computerworld.com/softwaretopics/software/appdev/story/0%2C1= 0801%2C76413%2C00.html
http://seefigure1.com/images/xenix/xenix-timeli= ne.jpg


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My new email address is mrochkind@gmail.com
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