From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.9 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED, DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED,FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN,FREEMAIL_FROM, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI, MALFORMED_FREEMAIL,MISSING_HEADERS,T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (minnie.tuhs.org [IPv6:2600:3c01:e000:146::1]) by inbox.vuxu.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0443F24CDC for ; Fri, 8 Mar 2024 01:24:35 +0100 (CET) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5788D4319D; Fri, 8 Mar 2024 10:24:31 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-wm1-x329.google.com (mail-wm1-x329.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::329]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5D7964319C for ; Fri, 8 Mar 2024 10:24:25 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-wm1-x329.google.com with SMTP id 5b1f17b1804b1-41312c3ab40so2449975e9.3 for ; Thu, 07 Mar 2024 16:24:25 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1709857463; x=1710462263; darn=tuhs.org; h=cc:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version :from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=0vg7mX3dbf1U+cAi1TZ+Pz0ytvvgiuSCwiN+nNecmqw=; b=UAZIWOeavNcCEYcgTuJ8ZTgn+RWwkPJoFwml51MmRrP+l2eZ5oD4TbJ8ToL0UvOcXa Wu/WUU4x9RyL22P34F0EqZVMZfSDu/YVKwmmysozSZToZAeUUK1w3VXbTKUI5T86j99d aP0Gx/SpdMCn5EITjUt9FHrLv+I4eVWLwM6z7fM7gww5e0+keiS6o3XLooOQtf5gT4Xz bi1dBrq5fmj4az4ryDHiIyzy+3I1o/m9WT4WhIGb8rB3/2JrQNYXvijGCtsYUDVGX+Yi 83JURBGiL5MnTGzSXhi4BZgj35ByowIaSpeqw4gy6hX0+NpQeDf0B9bBVy4odXRgst5Y +ZjQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1709857463; x=1710462263; h=cc:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version :x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=0vg7mX3dbf1U+cAi1TZ+Pz0ytvvgiuSCwiN+nNecmqw=; b=hZHTk+UvNOWTnS/QUtAsBrmEhpjiGBe4IXGQWjQKIFqJPhQSQrwW0G9XipfmtUo9xx Y4kU94Z2TboEKnQqxnRVcZiQC7Z+LwKjOas0tJKSDHsNB3Shi1lR1a5rJJGJ3qxemFOK /kv0Ttmx1ep3xyl65HxmPjDZ9mGnbUeve+YtQjyJ6vXvrEWxcJMcpQNgoYexmKiP1K6k tj1XphwRpsd79fnHL6ekJ3cSJCYqigHdJ2H0hQ6J9Yx8kJwvdoaCJsKwnNBWCSjvV8ZE DJHEkqtg9klN+N+dmY7tjatxSGZNGY6YD1TCpdIljZwf17if8cw6h3aw5h4U6/KDW3E6 foNw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YycEsM3o1rKmD8KPOPZWs5UZ3eUf5geUdmbLhqu9B2DVIcBE96u yKCWPgoefpPuDP3hVcBsm4KtT3OWKyc7kgw3RcuxbHuMXXCgD3SwrU+OUwDTHGKFkGV1Vmu83Ie UfikIRpdwZNa8VGCw20coKz9dR/+vG57WsfJx X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IHEIlnGunkJ86DP7JD9HT0/GZQmFSDELlPyuwMvnRlDT8PVEHJBxE6SQBEIO7M0Um9zZkYmdpy8+w4jrE30cwg= X-Received: by 2002:adf:e64e:0:b0:33e:73e6:b42b with SMTP id b14-20020adfe64e000000b0033e73e6b42bmr951094wrn.15.1709857463112; Thu, 07 Mar 2024 16:24:23 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <9a5a5684-065b-8986-04b5-e2ddb5e080d1@makerlisp.com> <13a5158a-9657-e519-e88b-98f1d700c190@makerlisp.com> In-Reply-To: From: Marc Rochkind Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2024 17:24:11 -0700 Message-ID: Cc: tuhs@tuhs.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000b49e8206131b3678" Message-ID-Hash: WNJZL73EJ7CVP4XGT44YOT4ZBI6TTXRM X-Message-ID-Hash: WNJZL73EJ7CVP4XGT44YOT4ZBI6TTXRM X-MailFrom: mrochkind@gmail.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: History of non-Bell C compilers? List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: --000000000000b49e8206131b3678 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I got my first computer in 1981, when I was still at Bell Labs. A Zenith, as I recall, running CP/M 80. There was a C-like compiler, but it was a subset. I think that computer had a z80 chip, so it wasn't an x86. Then I got an IBM PC in 1982, with an 8088 (16-bit word, 8-bit bus), and I'm pretty sure the first real C compiler was Lattice C. Microsoft picked it up and called it Microsoft C. Then, maybe a couple of years later, they came out with their own C compiler, written in-house, I think. (As I recall, I got my Lattice C compiler, which was very expensive, for free for writing a review for BYTE Magazine, but I can't find the review in my office or online, so maybe I'm imagining that. Or maybe I never finished the review or they didn't print it.) I had an early Macintosh, too, and used Lightspeed C. I think it was essentially complete C. It was a whole IDE, incredibly fast, and I used it for commercial applications for the Mac. I continued to use that until Apple bought Next and revised their product line to use NextStep. Then I used what Apple had, but it was Objective-C (blend of Smalltalk and C) which is what you wrote NextStep apps in. I think we used Objective-C for Mac work until the early 1990s, when I stopped writing native Mac apps. Lots of missing details here, I'm sure. The August 1983 issue of BYTE Magazine was all about C, and has three articles reviewing C compilers for CP/M 86, the IBM PC, and CP/M 80. There's also an article called "The C Language and Models for Systems Programming" by two guys who know about that stuff, Stephen C. Johnson and Brian W. Kernighan. Here's a link to the issue: https://archive.org/details/byte-magazine-1983-08 Marc On Thu, Mar 7, 2024 at 4:45=E2=80=AFPM Tom Lyon wrote: > I know of Plauger as a Kernighan co-author, so I did a search on AbeBooks > and found - a lot of science fiction! Must investigate. > > On Thu, Mar 7, 2024 at 3:27=E2=80=AFPM Luther Johnson < > luther.johnson@makerlisp.com> wrote: > >> Oops, misspelled Mr. Plauger's name, pardon me, that's "P.J. Plauger". >> >> On 03/07/2024 04:24 PM, Luther Johnson wrote: >> > I don't have any personal tales, but I remember that P.J. Plaugher's >> > company, "Whitesmiths", C compiler was an early, and influential, >> > non-AT&T C compiler. >> > >> > On 03/07/2024 04:14 PM, Tom Lyon wrote: >> >> For no good reason, I've been wondering about the early history of C >> >> compilers that were not derived from Ritchie, Johnson, and Snyder at >> >> Bell. Especially for x86. Anyone have tales? >> >> Were any of those compilers ever used to port UNIX? >> > >> >> --=20 *My new email address is mrochkind@gmail.com * --000000000000b49e8206131b3678 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I got my first=C2=A0 computer in 1981, when I was still at= Bell Labs. A Zenith, as I recall, running CP/M 80. There was a C-like comp= iler, but it was a subset. I think that computer had a z80 chip, so it wasn= 't an x86.

Then I got an IBM PC in 1982, with an 808= 8 (16-bit word, 8-bit bus), and I'm pretty sure the first real C compil= er was Lattice C. Microsoft picked it up and called it Microsoft C. Then, m= aybe a couple of years later, they came out with their own C compiler, writ= ten in-house, I think. (As I recall, I got my Lattice C compiler, which was= very expensive, for free for writing a review for BYTE Magazine, but I can= 't find the review in my office or online, so maybe I'm imagining t= hat. Or maybe I never finished the review or they didn't print it.)

I had an early Macintosh, too, and used Lightspeed C.= I think it was essentially complete C. It was a whole IDE, incredibly fast= , and I used it for commercial applications for the Mac. I continued to use= that until Apple bought Next and revised their product line to use NextSte= p. Then I used what Apple had, but it was Objective-C (blend of Smalltalk= =C2=A0and=C2=A0C) which is what you wrote NextStep apps in. I think we used= Objective-C for Mac work until the early 1990s, when I stopped writing nat= ive Mac apps.

Lots of missing details here, I'= m sure.

The August 1983 issue of BYTE Magazine was= all about C, and has three articles reviewing C compilers for CP/M 86, the= IBM PC, and CP/M 80. There's also an article called "The C Langua= ge and Models for Systems Programming" by two guys who know about that= stuff,=C2=A0 Stephen C. Johnson and Brian W. Kernighan. Here's a link = to the issue:=C2=A0https://archive.org/details/byte-magazine-1983-08

<= /div>
Marc

On Thu, Mar 7, 2024 at 4:45=E2=80=AFPM Tom Lyon <pugs78@gmail.com> wrote:
<= blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-l= eft:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
I know of= Plauger as a Kernighan co-author, so I did a search on AbeBooks and found = - a lot of science fiction!=C2=A0 Must investigate.

On Thu, Mar 7, 2024 = at 3:27=E2=80=AFPM Luther Johnson <luther.johnson@makerlisp.com> wrote:
Oops, misspelled M= r. Plauger's name, pardon me, that's "P.J. Plauger".

On 03/07/2024 04:24 PM, Luther Johnson wrote:
> I don't have any personal tales, but I remember that P.J. Plaugher= 's
> company, "Whitesmiths", C compiler was an early, and influen= tial,
> non-AT&T C compiler.
>
> On 03/07/2024 04:14 PM, Tom Lyon wrote:
>> For no good reason, I've been wondering about the early histor= y of C
>> compilers that were not derived from Ritchie, Johnson, and Snyder = at
>> Bell.=C2=A0 Especially for x86. Anyone have tales?
>> Were any of those compilers ever used to port UNIX?
>



--
My new email address is mrochkind@gmail.com
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