From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.9 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED, DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED,FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN,FREEMAIL_FROM, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,HTML_FONT_LOW_CONTRAST,HTML_MESSAGE, MAILING_LIST_MULTI,MALFORMED_FREEMAIL,MISSING_HEADERS, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (minnie.tuhs.org [50.116.15.146]) by inbox.vuxu.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 543EC2589C for ; Thu, 7 Mar 2024 19:33:21 +0100 (CET) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49880428E7; Fri, 8 Mar 2024 04:33:15 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-wr1-x436.google.com (mail-wr1-x436.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::436]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3AAAD428D5 for ; Fri, 8 Mar 2024 04:33:06 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-wr1-x436.google.com with SMTP id ffacd0b85a97d-33e570ef661so647790f8f.1 for ; Thu, 07 Mar 2024 10:33:06 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1709836384; x=1710441184; darn=tuhs.org; h=cc:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version :from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=UZO0WxetGfpk6S0HO+213QbHO9ztXRI94YWr7+UiUsI=; b=nIU54bnnk1KHhmQBG1V+HHfo6LacnZZQhgnnB9OHX6OQeV8eT9/DSo/vaVnfxSfa+V Cn/uw8Ep3+7kSls+Hr+mN1nJHb3NQFxuXojTpo056U0eYmmnSUmg+ACJWqScjquRyBko /z8TvfmWV0LtFLobUBE+vIa51cH47+12kwMuHFUH0dwnHdiIAcZjKU4PN6upDRy6L5uS lS25r0decRkINuPdXqYSy/1JofSwTPfEkNAYMnW7WlhoaXX0oR+vGZ//m8XRoYPubVqH jnyv36fw0ILLlTRpoTYcvKB0sCVgZAmE/zbGSSdUCVcWf7NVwCH1ibLeNXHrmjyCFTa4 2K6A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1709836384; x=1710441184; h=cc:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version :x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=UZO0WxetGfpk6S0HO+213QbHO9ztXRI94YWr7+UiUsI=; b=MZGdUo0dy6i3wLhtYbfXPa9CvieLZ7jd/5LCAD55OHjGT93XvNud66NyvbKax6fWGB ef9y58FKjedkL4fMAhegEsqF8QJ3PHBUeH/InBJQvIMOFzYd39G3z/v2EK/vYb4EbEV4 uzOlXuo+CQV/T6oItu0ZvUTzGfTt88Ygq5i0nBNaq0gorvu60g6GO+EgVDC7cgr7UASa ToyoOiXYBE05FvgdVXdbrT6MclCO/bVUc2UtrjbppyU2JjEntpqLQxz5lcBC/useBlvU 7Q2PI7G4AJGjsJ6/u1NEUZlDUFTa+lOLz79zwP4snblVkXQ1pKY1lmc9I7mwJ18VzkDY a2nQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YxAbXnWlD6l/mbnMy+qL1vdUgo1mPGJHY/QfxFuDLhw/5Ggq1Ns cLHrkxbSkUkhYQo4oQrJpy1X47qkr2KRuauWtLZ/yE+xPzw+EEyZqCRIIkvPQht70S5EE3eJobK qWACF/4xVqpqrL4BgcaN/xvcNp4HRZsv7tw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IETkt0Pv6bg5O+u5EPWe/2RpAoCZ7iF0ud4FAZgzfnaRlo2d97JPzttVxdUBLiksZW32OV3acYEY07l+cexSGw= X-Received: by 2002:adf:a389:0:b0:33d:9231:d1c2 with SMTP id l9-20020adfa389000000b0033d9231d1c2mr15480834wrb.25.1709836384169; Thu, 07 Mar 2024 10:33:04 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <9eb334edeb7568193000f8755704af7799169b17.camel@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: From: Marc Rochkind Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2024 11:32:52 -0700 Message-ID: Cc: tuhs@tuhs.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000004d7b080613164ec5" Message-ID-Hash: TX4OHHINRVXUQXHCYW7CFNVQPALFFGLA X-Message-ID-Hash: TX4OHHINRVXUQXHCYW7CFNVQPALFFGLA X-MailFrom: mrochkind@gmail.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: What do you currently use for your primary OS at home? List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: --0000000000004d7b080613164ec5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Minor correction to Thomas (but nothing is too minor for this list ;-) ): Chromebooks run ChromeOS, undoubtedly based on some form of Linux, as is Android. Marc On Thu, Mar 7, 2024 at 9:33=E2=80=AFAM ron minnich wro= te: > my user-facing system is OSX on an m2, 96 G DRAM, 4T SSD. I have a > system76, 40G DRAM, 4T NVME running linux for things needing linux. I hav= e > a USB Armory, 512M, running either a small Debian distro or Go on bare > metal with Tamago. I have several systems that run TinyGo on bare metal. > > I have a boatload of IoT under development, nowadays, all RISC-V. They ru= n > a cut-down Linux with ONE init process, written in Go, that implements a > version of the Plan 9 cpu command, called sidecore ( > github.com/u-root/sidecore, first talk to be presented next month). As a > result, most of the systems I have can run any distro I want, on a > per-command basis, so in most cases the distro I run is called "make your > choice". I can run any distro I want, with $HOME coming from $HOME, from > OSX or Linux, and It Just Works. You Plan 9 folks have some idea what I > mean, although sidecore actually does more. > > WIth Go and Rust, distros matter much less. Most C nowadays is not writte= n > in a portable way anyways -- see a bit of the full sad story here: > https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1d0yK7g-J6oITgE-B_odadSw3nlBWGbMK7= clt_TmXo7c/edit?usp=3Dsharing > -- so I've largely stopped using C at all. That, in turn, affects which > systems I use for interactive work. > > So I guess the answer, in my case, is "whatever I need at the moment" -- > since my UI is OSX, my build systems are OSX and Ubuntu, and my IoT are, = on > a command-by-command basis, "it depends." > > cpu (and sidecore) is one of those Plan 9 commands I could not live > without, and Go made it possible to have it everywhere. It's even got an > IANA number since last year -- 17010. > > On Thu, Mar 7, 2024 at 8:13=E2=80=AFAM Marc Rochkind wrote: > >> To my way of thinking, the OS itself matters only if you're developing o= r >> supporting the OS, or doing development for that OS. Otherwise, the >> overwhelming criteria are what applications are available. I use Adobe >> Lightroom and Photoshop for my photography, and those are available only >> for MacOS and Windows. Because of very bad experiences with Apple as a >> developer of apps for the iPhone, I don't like anything Apple, so I use >> Windows for my desktop and laptop, and an Android phone. >> >> I often hear that there are Open Source equivalents for Lightroom and >> Photoshop, but the people saying that aren't serious photographers. >> >> If you don't require any particular applications, then, as I said, the O= S >> doesn't matter, so Linux and FreeBSD are fine choices. I've long been >> impressed with how usable distros like Ubuntu have become over the years= . >> >> On rare occasions, I need to run a UNIX/Linux program, and for that I >> used to use the MacOS command line back when I used a Mac, and now use >> Windows System for Linux, which runs Ubuntu. >> >> (Like everything else posted here, these are my opinions, likely not >> anyone else's.) >> >> Marc Rochkind >> >> On Thu, Mar 7, 2024 at 8:52=E2=80=AFAM Clem Cole wrote: >> >>> Like Marc Donner, my primary system, UNIX or otherwise, in which I'm >>> typing this message, is a current late model MacPro (arm/Sonoma) - whic= h I >>> switched to Apple's UNIX flavor about 20+ years ago and have yet to loo= k >>> back. That said, I have almost every OS that runs on x86 from different >>> Linux flavors and BSDs, plus lots of different I/O controllers for >>> conversion in my basement. Further, I also have a number of historica= l >>> (non-Intel or Arm-based) computers on my different ethernets. FWIW: I >>> also have a ton of SCSI equipment that's either on a FreeBSD Box (most >>> often), or I have a RATOC SCSI to USB2 controller cable that 'just work= s' >>> on my Mac and/or any x86 laptop I have around. It is known to talk to = the >>> disks as well as recently discussed Archive Viper QIC drives. That said= , >>> I've never tried the USB to SCSI cable with a Linux -- only MacOS and >>> Winders (I never needed to use it with anything else). Also, I have n= ever >>> tried that interface with 9-track, which is on the FreeBSD systems SCSI >>> chain driven by an on-motherboard Adaptec PCI to SCSI. The only real is= sue >>> I have had trying to use SCSI peripherals with MacOS is that traditiona= l >>> BSD is not included in the last N versions of the Apple >>> developers tool kit, making a compilation of old tape-based C code a PI= TA. >>> Still, if you install the controller and can manage to rebuild -- it al= l >>> seems to work fine. >>> >>> Clem >>> =E1=90=A7 >>> =E1=90=A7 >>> =E1=90=A7 >>> >> >> >> -- >> *My new email address is mrochkind@gmail.com * >> > --=20 *My new email address is mrochkind@gmail.com * --0000000000004d7b080613164ec5 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Minor correction to Thomas (but nothing is too minor for t= his list ;-) ):

Chromebooks run ChromeOS, undoubtedly ba= sed on some form of Linux, as is Android.

Marc

On Thu, Mar 7, 2024 at 9:33=E2=80=AFAM ron minnich <rminnich@gmail.com> wrote:
my user-facing syste= m is OSX=C2=A0on an m2,=C2=A096 G DRAM,=C2=A04T SSD. I have a system76, 40G= DRAM, 4T NVME running linux for things needing linux. I have a USB Armory,= 512M, running either a small Debian distro or Go on bare metal with Tamago= . I have several systems that run TinyGo on bare metal.

= I have a boatload of IoT under development, nowadays, all RISC-V. They run = a cut-down Linux with ONE init process, written in Go, that implements a ve= rsion of the Plan 9 cpu command, called sidecore (github.com/u-root/sidecore, firs= t talk to be presented next month). As a result, most of the systems I have= can run any distro I want, on a per-command basis, so in most cases the di= stro I run is called "make your choice". I can run any distro I w= ant, with $HOME coming from $HOME, from OSX or Linux, and It Just Works. Yo= u Plan 9 folks have some idea what I mean, although=C2=A0sidecore actually = does more.

WIth Go and Rust, distros matter much l= ess. Most C nowadays is not written in a portable way anyways -- see a bit = of the full sad story here:=C2=A0https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1d0yK7g-J6oITgE-B_od= adSw3nlBWGbMK7clt_TmXo7c/edit?usp=3Dsharing -- so I've largely stop= ped using C at all. That, in turn, affects which systems I use for interact= ive work.=C2=A0

So I guess the=C2=A0answer, in my = case, is "whatever I need at the moment" -- since my UI is OSX, m= y build systems are OSX and Ubuntu, and my IoT are, on a command-by-command= basis, "it depends."

cpu (and sidec= ore) is one of=C2=A0 those Plan 9 commands I could not live without, and Go= made it possible to have it everywhere. It's even got an IANA number s= ince last year -- 17010.

On Thu, Mar 7, 2024 at 8:13=E2=80=AFAM Marc R= ochkind <mrochk= ind@gmail.com> wrote:
To my way of thinking, the OS itself matters = only if you're developing or supporting the OS, or doing development fo= r that OS. Otherwise, the overwhelming criteria are what applications are a= vailable. I use Adobe Lightroom and Photoshop for my photography, and those= are available only for MacOS and Windows. Because of very bad experiences = with Apple as a developer of apps for the iPhone, I don't like anything= Apple, so I use Windows for my desktop and laptop, and an Android phone.
I often hear that there are Open Source equivalents for L= ightroom and Photoshop, but the people saying that aren't serious photo= graphers.

If you don't require any particular = applications, then, as I said, the OS doesn't matter, so Linux and Free= BSD=C2=A0 are fine choices. I've long been impressed with how usable di= stros like Ubuntu have become over the years.

On r= are occasions, I need to run a UNIX/Linux program, and for that I used to u= se the MacOS command line back when I used a Mac, and now use Windows Syste= m for Linux, which runs Ubuntu.

(Like everything e= lse posted here, these are my opinions, likely not anyone else's.)

Marc Rochkind

On Thu, Mar 7, 2024 at 8:52=E2=80= =AFAM Clem Cole <clem= c@ccc.com> wrote:
Like Marc Donner, my primary system, UNIX or= otherwise, in which I'm typing this message, is a current late model M= acPro (arm/Sonoma) - which I switched to Apple's UNIX flavor about 20+ = years ago and have yet to look back. That said, I have almost every OS that= runs on x86 from different Linux flavors and BSDs, plus lots of different = I/O controllers for conversion in my=C2=A0basement.=C2=A0 =C2=A0Further, I = also have a number of historical (non-Intel or Arm-based) computers on my d= ifferent ethernets.=C2=A0 =C2=A0FWIW: I also have a ton of SCSI equipment t= hat's either=C2=A0on a FreeBSD Box (most often), or I have a RATOC SCSI= to USB2 controller cable that 'just works' on my Mac and/or any x8= 6 laptop I have around.=C2=A0 It is known=C2=A0to talk to the disks as well= as recently discussed Archive Viper QIC drives. That said, I've never = tried the=C2=A0USB to SCSI cable with a Linux -- only MacOS and Winders (I = never needed to use it with anything else).=C2=A0 =C2=A0Also, I have never = tried that interface with 9-track, which is on the FreeBSD systems SCSI cha= in driven by an on-motherboard Adaptec PCI to SCSI. The only real issue I h= ave had trying to=C2=A0use SCSI peripherals with MacOS is that traditional = BSD <sys/mtio.h> is not included in the last N versions of the Apple = developers tool kit, making a compilation of old tape-based C code a PITA. = Still, if you install the controller and can manage to rebuild -- it all se= ems to work fine.

Clem
3D""=E1=90=A7<= /div>
3D""=E1=90=A7
3D""=E1=90=A7


--
My new email address is mrochkind@gmail.com


--
My new email address is mrochkind@gmail.com
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