From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.6 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED, DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED,FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN,FREEMAIL_FROM, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,HTML_FONT_LOW_CONTRAST,HTML_MESSAGE, MAILING_LIST_MULTI,T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (minnie.tuhs.org [50.116.15.146]) by inbox.vuxu.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9CEB6271D2 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 2024 17:33:42 +0100 (CET) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5006A428E4; Fri, 8 Mar 2024 02:33:38 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-lj1-x234.google.com (mail-lj1-x234.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::234]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7D727428E0 for ; Fri, 8 Mar 2024 02:33:30 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-lj1-x234.google.com with SMTP id 38308e7fff4ca-2d309a23d76so19762721fa.1 for ; Thu, 07 Mar 2024 08:33:30 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1709829208; x=1710434008; darn=tuhs.org; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=bjDxT8Q+meSk0h17v9RyjS2cPDiC63YmuUERajzIX0k=; b=P7IRPB+gKB3SlxSuXn1WTRPz762iXglGtfTxyEkRQwN7z2X0N3PtuNhFzZagjuJoPF GkY175cchLyryKWBMNHrep+oSrlI6Hsz72HFwp1SP6f4ZqftcqHS4d0xqoAgYH0dA2z1 pjSDzNJaWMzk/JyOChJ/y8Rv6+rFNJt57yEUKniClQO/DHBLtb9a7t4JV1TJuM0trU8q k2EOOtArvUUhk6u0/7VzACu5z0LDfSTGt6Izrsovah9Dn46BWSUw25zcVMj6JQ3teuFW NIAGq2Kz4aM9hQT6eZ8pGeru6Wap7umY2orCk0n04v4Vzs0yAttmpHK4WzQ9FPO3QvUm n5mg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1709829208; x=1710434008; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=bjDxT8Q+meSk0h17v9RyjS2cPDiC63YmuUERajzIX0k=; b=NjWpcZqjRGZ6A/3s7GXpMEQAonTHEvpsDL5hyF594Qg9PUzW95bK/VjghLn+uzvfLq /jd/40MJllZ7lbkqQVcNuqOLiq/jqt6G54TIRP+kKXvC9+f3koRQwj/VJxdusAlS5sdy jfGseq/BDN4nUkq8R9SHUnNTY7lPFwco1XAqXbNaRHFiyou/aDyLn/MJAjr1rqAKa67W lxFQ+XnRIsyHrP/oMzo5ptSbD17agDt0iN3hOQ1IAaZs1Mg2lR6UfTzfWNuBS/KhiNNk 9rzEovJiWQ8ANmX7D7Gc165vfCu8UDc8/W7sKSw6drjodVAr8zEPp3H6GPPIt7S/8J4+ 0+gg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YzgpF2/Oz+eKca9TzG1qG9QajeAMu9CNjVt0y5CyuKowNg4gC5C SEZwoVeG2+gNFIP9RIZy9GYz4R1TfA0v133/T9LYNIwgQPe39Rl26022ijaAXktz99c7PRQ2znS 6ZZVSMkYWIzRVNIbzk/uWoQCfRHHXOsfi67E= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IH2o2zmZWVkNYZ4fjE9XrVJyZX+l99crOfMwwn768VsuE0geq5dNWsL2pNe7ulLiw75SjXVOVjjeV0ZH0MgUBg= X-Received: by 2002:a2e:848f:0:b0:2d4:e6d:ab5b with SMTP id b15-20020a2e848f000000b002d40e6dab5bmr257296ljh.22.1709829207940; Thu, 07 Mar 2024 08:33:27 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <9eb334edeb7568193000f8755704af7799169b17.camel@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: From: ron minnich Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2024 08:33:15 -0800 Message-ID: To: Marc Rochkind Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000090e90e061314a2c9" Message-ID-Hash: IKKWWAUTNDJMMFIQWH43UMBGGKAUMVHR X-Message-ID-Hash: IKKWWAUTNDJMMFIQWH43UMBGGKAUMVHR X-MailFrom: rminnich@gmail.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: tuhs@tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: What do you currently use for your primary OS at home? List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: --00000000000090e90e061314a2c9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable my user-facing system is OSX on an m2, 96 G DRAM, 4T SSD. I have a system76, 40G DRAM, 4T NVME running linux for things needing linux. I have a USB Armory, 512M, running either a small Debian distro or Go on bare metal with Tamago. I have several systems that run TinyGo on bare metal. I have a boatload of IoT under development, nowadays, all RISC-V. They run a cut-down Linux with ONE init process, written in Go, that implements a version of the Plan 9 cpu command, called sidecore ( github.com/u-root/sidecore, first talk to be presented next month). As a result, most of the systems I have can run any distro I want, on a per-command basis, so in most cases the distro I run is called "make your choice". I can run any distro I want, with $HOME coming from $HOME, from OSX or Linux, and It Just Works. You Plan 9 folks have some idea what I mean, although sidecore actually does more. WIth Go and Rust, distros matter much less. Most C nowadays is not written in a portable way anyways -- see a bit of the full sad story here: https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1d0yK7g-J6oITgE-B_odadSw3nlBWGbMK7cl= t_TmXo7c/edit?usp=3Dsharing -- so I've largely stopped using C at all. That, in turn, affects which systems I use for interactive work. So I guess the answer, in my case, is "whatever I need at the moment" -- since my UI is OSX, my build systems are OSX and Ubuntu, and my IoT are, on a command-by-command basis, "it depends." cpu (and sidecore) is one of those Plan 9 commands I could not live without, and Go made it possible to have it everywhere. It's even got an IANA number since last year -- 17010. On Thu, Mar 7, 2024 at 8:13=E2=80=AFAM Marc Rochkind = wrote: > To my way of thinking, the OS itself matters only if you're developing or > supporting the OS, or doing development for that OS. Otherwise, the > overwhelming criteria are what applications are available. I use Adobe > Lightroom and Photoshop for my photography, and those are available only > for MacOS and Windows. Because of very bad experiences with Apple as a > developer of apps for the iPhone, I don't like anything Apple, so I use > Windows for my desktop and laptop, and an Android phone. > > I often hear that there are Open Source equivalents for Lightroom and > Photoshop, but the people saying that aren't serious photographers. > > If you don't require any particular applications, then, as I said, the OS > doesn't matter, so Linux and FreeBSD are fine choices. I've long been > impressed with how usable distros like Ubuntu have become over the years. > > On rare occasions, I need to run a UNIX/Linux program, and for that I use= d > to use the MacOS command line back when I used a Mac, and now use Windows > System for Linux, which runs Ubuntu. > > (Like everything else posted here, these are my opinions, likely not > anyone else's.) > > Marc Rochkind > > On Thu, Mar 7, 2024 at 8:52=E2=80=AFAM Clem Cole wrote: > >> Like Marc Donner, my primary system, UNIX or otherwise, in which I'm >> typing this message, is a current late model MacPro (arm/Sonoma) - which= I >> switched to Apple's UNIX flavor about 20+ years ago and have yet to look >> back. That said, I have almost every OS that runs on x86 from different >> Linux flavors and BSDs, plus lots of different I/O controllers for >> conversion in my basement. Further, I also have a number of historical >> (non-Intel or Arm-based) computers on my different ethernets. FWIW: I >> also have a ton of SCSI equipment that's either on a FreeBSD Box (most >> often), or I have a RATOC SCSI to USB2 controller cable that 'just works= ' >> on my Mac and/or any x86 laptop I have around. It is known to talk to t= he >> disks as well as recently discussed Archive Viper QIC drives. That said, >> I've never tried the USB to SCSI cable with a Linux -- only MacOS and >> Winders (I never needed to use it with anything else). Also, I have ne= ver >> tried that interface with 9-track, which is on the FreeBSD systems SCSI >> chain driven by an on-motherboard Adaptec PCI to SCSI. The only real iss= ue >> I have had trying to use SCSI peripherals with MacOS is that traditional >> BSD is not included in the last N versions of the Apple >> developers tool kit, making a compilation of old tape-based C code a PIT= A. >> Still, if you install the controller and can manage to rebuild -- it all >> seems to work fine. >> >> Clem >> =E1=90=A7 >> =E1=90=A7 >> =E1=90=A7 >> > > > -- > *My new email address is mrochkind@gmail.com * > --00000000000090e90e061314a2c9 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
my user-facing system is OSX=C2=A0on an m2,=C2=A096 G DRAM= ,=C2=A04T SSD. I have a system76, 40G DRAM, 4T NVME running linux for thing= s needing linux. I have a USB Armory, 512M, running either a small Debian d= istro or Go on bare metal with Tamago. I have several systems that run Tiny= Go on bare metal.

I have a boatload of IoT under develop= ment, nowadays, all RISC-V. They run a cut-down Linux with ONE init process= , written in Go, that implements a version of the Plan 9 cpu command, calle= d sidecore (github.com/u-root= /sidecore, first talk to be presented next month). As a result, most of= the systems I have can run any distro I want, on a per-command basis, so i= n most cases the distro I run is called "make your choice". I can= run any distro I want, with $HOME coming from $HOME, from OSX or Linux, an= d It Just Works. You Plan 9 folks have some idea what I mean, although=C2= =A0sidecore actually does more.

WIth Go and Rust, = distros matter much less. Most C nowadays is not written in a portable way = anyways -- see a bit of the full sad story here:=C2=A0https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1d0yK7g-J6oITgE-B= _odadSw3nlBWGbMK7clt_TmXo7c/edit?usp=3Dsharing -- so I've largely s= topped using C at all. That, in turn, affects which systems I use for inter= active work.=C2=A0

So I guess the=C2=A0answer, in = my case, is "whatever I need at the moment" -- since my UI is OSX= , my build systems are OSX and Ubuntu, and my IoT are, on a command-by-comm= and basis, "it depends."

cpu (and si= decore) is one of=C2=A0 those Plan 9 commands I could not live without, and= Go made it possible to have it everywhere. It's even got an IANA numbe= r since last year -- 17010.

On Thu, Mar 7, 2024 at 8:13=E2=80=AFAM Mar= c Rochkind <mrochkind@gmail.com> wrote:
To my way of thinking, the OS itself matters only if you'= ;re developing or supporting the OS, or doing development for that OS. Othe= rwise, the overwhelming criteria are what applications are available. I use= Adobe Lightroom and Photoshop for my photography, and those are available = only for MacOS and Windows. Because of very bad experiences with Apple as a= developer of apps for the iPhone, I don't like anything Apple, so I us= e Windows for my desktop and laptop, and an Android phone.

I often hear that there are Open Source equivalents for Lightroom and Ph= otoshop, but the people saying that aren't serious photographers.
=

If you don't require any particular applications, t= hen, as I said, the OS doesn't matter, so Linux and FreeBSD=C2=A0 are f= ine choices. I've long been impressed with how usable distros like Ubun= tu have become over the years.

On rare occasions, = I need to run a UNIX/Linux program, and for that I used to use the MacOS co= mmand line back when I used a Mac, and now use Windows System for Linux, wh= ich runs Ubuntu.

(Like everything else posted here= , these are my opinions, likely not anyone else's.)

Marc Rochkind

On Thu, Mar 7, 2024 at 8:52=E2=80=AFAM Clem Cole &= lt;clemc@ccc.com>= wrote:
Like Marc Donner, my primary system, UNIX or otherwise, in whic= h I'm typing this message, is a current late model MacPro (arm/Sonoma) = - which I switched to Apple's UNIX flavor about 20+ years ago and have = yet to look back. That said, I have almost every OS that runs on x86 from d= ifferent Linux flavors and BSDs, plus lots of different I/O controllers for= conversion in my=C2=A0basement.=C2=A0 =C2=A0Further, I also have a number = of historical (non-Intel or Arm-based) computers on my different ethernets.= =C2=A0 =C2=A0FWIW: I also have a ton of SCSI equipment that's either=C2= =A0on a FreeBSD Box (most often), or I have a RATOC SCSI to USB2 controller= cable that 'just works' on my Mac and/or any x86 laptop I have aro= und.=C2=A0 It is known=C2=A0to talk to the disks as well as recently discus= sed Archive Viper QIC drives. That said, I've never tried the=C2=A0USB = to SCSI cable with a Linux -- only MacOS and Winders (I never needed to use= it with anything else).=C2=A0 =C2=A0Also, I have never tried that interfac= e with 9-track, which is on the FreeBSD systems SCSI chain driven by an on-= motherboard Adaptec PCI to SCSI. The only real issue I have had trying to= =C2=A0use SCSI peripherals with MacOS is that traditional BSD <sys/mtio.= h> is not included in the last N versions of the Apple developers tool k= it, making a compilation of old tape-based C code a PITA. Still, if you ins= tall the controller and can manage to rebuild -- it all seems to work fine.=

Clem
3D""=E1=90=A7
3D""= =E1=90=A7
3D""=E1=90=A7


--
My new email address is mrochkind@gmail.com
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