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[75.117.221.84]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id r4-20020a056870e8c400b002201144306csm124273oan.53.2024.03.08.15.43.19 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 08 Mar 2024 15:43:19 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) From: Will Senn X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (16H81) In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2024 17:43:18 -0600 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <9eb334edeb7568193000f8755704af7799169b17.camel@gmail.com> <789486d8dae3335166640461f7885bf9cf6043cf.camel@gmail.com> <20240308034259.GS2252@mcvoy.com> To: Greg 'groggy' Lehey Message-ID-Hash: QYBOS3EKV4OPRIU7YLXBRWBABHXE7A73 X-Message-ID-Hash: QYBOS3EKV4OPRIU7YLXBRWBABHXE7A73 X-MailFrom: will.senn@gmail.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: "Jeffry R. Abramson" , Ben Kallus , "tuhs@tuhs.org" X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: FreeBSD kernel not OK? (was: What do you currently use for your primary OS at home?) List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: +1, installing FreeBSD takes me on average 5 minutes. 5 more to apply update= s. With ZFS system restores take less than 5 and getting things configured t= he way I like them is another hour if it=E2=80=99s not a restore. GUI? KDE a= nd Xfce work... not my faves, but better than Gnome for my taste. My only gr= ipe with it is that I run a huge number of programs regularly and they slowl= y find their way into the package system. Zoom works, but only in the browse= r, Outlook works, sort of, rstudio kinda works, dotnet doesn=E2=80=99t work a= t all... These all work and work well on Linux. If they worked on FreeBSD, I= would never need another environment. FreeBSD is sane when it comes to init= . System-D is for some other use-case than mine, but I=E2=80=99ll put up wit= h init madness if the next time I download a new dev tool, it just works... Will Sent from my iPhone > On Mar 8, 2024, at 5:18 PM, Greg 'groggy' Lehey wrote: >=20 >> On Thursday, 7 March 2024 at 19:42:59 -0800, Larry McVoy wrote: >>> On Thu, Mar 07, 2024 at 08:15:43PM -0500, Jeffry R. Abramson wrote: >>> On Thu, 2024-03-07 at 13:08 +0000, Ben Kallus wrote: >>=20 >> FreeBSD and me got reconnected when Netflix wanted to hire me a >> while back. While the kernel may be OK (it's not, ask me how I >> know, I walked the code) >=20 > OK, I'm asking. I've been there too, and I don't see any obvious and > serious deficiencies. >=20 >> FreeBSD is stuck in the 1980s. Raise your hand if you have >> installed FreeBSD in the last 20 years. >=20 > /me raises. >=20 >> That "UI" for partitioning the disks, so arcane. The whole install >> experience is _awful_. >=20 > Agreed, some of the installation tools could do with improvement. But > how often do you install FreeBSD? As I have already noted, I've been > using it for 25 years or so, and in the early days I held classes on > installing FreeBSD. By about 2000 they seemed a little pointless. In > general, once it's there, it's there. You seem to be emphasizing the > wrong part of the system. >=20 >> SunOS was a bug fixed BSD, so I really loved BSD. But BSD is so >> dead it is not even funny. Linux is light years ahead. Here is an >> example from more than 20 years ago. I was installing RedHat Linux >> and the machine I was installing on didn't have a mouse. The >> installer was graphical and it was just easier to tab through the >> options than go find a mouse. >=20 > Again, installation. How about *using* the system? And why should > you need a *mouse* to install software? >=20 > Greg > -- > Sent from my desktop computer. > Finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key. > See complete headers for address and phone numbers. > This message is digitally signed. If your Microsoft mail program > reports problems, please read http://lemis.com/broken-MUA.php