From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.2 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU,DKIM_VALID_EF,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (minnie.tuhs.org [50.116.15.146]) by inbox.vuxu.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 47C39254DC for ; Sat, 9 Mar 2024 00:45:58 +0100 (CET) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 39ABC43326; Sat, 9 Mar 2024 09:45:55 +1000 (AEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=tuhs.org; s=dkim; t=1709941555; h=from:from:reply-to:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:list-id:list-help: list-owner:list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post; bh=dbB3hJ4e2JVR1FU/AnRPcEnxKPdjxRJRW7TJ9SnVzOk=; b=uH9KsySQ7xd5flbYUPwsMC0+NnbqsY4o0IyZZEixjMOy1ho3QXHWigp1G2HetBlWnKeebo u5+ikIAJ8HfpY/glQVpdQ9KI7GJ5Pwhrmu5YuDaidBs4xsPmYN8jlVe9CNWYJKrJS1/gpc 693FCmFOSpBEnqz8VSph3cprey2wtDE= Received: from mail-40130.protonmail.ch (mail-40130.protonmail.ch [185.70.40.130]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 84DB343325 for ; Sat, 9 Mar 2024 09:45:49 +1000 (AEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=protonmail.com; s=protonmail3; t=1709941547; x=1710200747; bh=dbB3hJ4e2JVR1FU/AnRPcEnxKPdjxRJRW7TJ9SnVzOk=; h=Date:To:From:Cc:Subject:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References: Feedback-ID:From:To:Cc:Date:Subject:Reply-To:Feedback-ID: Message-ID:BIMI-Selector; b=KNfQ1T/jpJTd3BukQLH/6ofSwSEHsFMI5em/KSJxnb+oNTqbKA2i95ATgfk379zzt p2dpXZO+y+FB5HfNOFyizH8F+j4VtuxJLyPrk4cif1kNMn7swFJsh97jcNM029VAJz n7qkzZF8KNtaUz5IKzYh6Ig9TushyoAYIy4eSyYdWbmHnnwe19QPdemHGdv88RU80I MGzpzQIXhLJdi1DYTeqnY56EGh0mwn6gG3+Lsk3de8qcRYzQdPDUWblq5EQr7A4bZ1 ASd0ty+xa5ucqkTYSIWJkXeBxx+sSAqC9RybvaTXsFJOLPxQBk/Hwc9H4zgEKq2i3N gKVqSjlPrWjDA== Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2024 23:45:31 +0000 To: Greg 'groggy' Lehey Message-ID: In-Reply-To: References: <9eb334edeb7568193000f8755704af7799169b17.camel@gmail.com> <789486d8dae3335166640461f7885bf9cf6043cf.camel@gmail.com> <20240308034259.GS2252@mcvoy.com> Feedback-ID: 35591162:user:proton MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-ID-Hash: AD7XCOTPC4EHD3K3W225XA6LF2JFOWNA X-Message-ID-Hash: AD7XCOTPC4EHD3K3W225XA6LF2JFOWNA X-MailFrom: segaloco@protonmail.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: "Jeffry R. Abramson" , Ben Kallus , "tuhs@tuhs.org" X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: FreeBSD kernel not OK? (was: What do you currently use for your primary OS at home?) List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: From: segaloco via TUHS Reply-To: segaloco On Friday, March 8th, 2024 at 3:18 PM, Greg 'groggy' Lehey = wrote: > On Thursday, 7 March 2024 at 19:42:59 -0800, Larry McVoy wrote: >=20 > > On Thu, Mar 07, 2024 at 08:15:43PM -0500, Jeffry R. Abramson wrote: > >=20 > > > On Thu, 2024-03-07 at 13:08 +0000, Ben Kallus wrote: > >=20 > > FreeBSD and me got reconnected when Netflix wanted to hire me a > > while back. While the kernel may be OK (it's not, ask me how I > > know, I walked the code) >=20 >=20 > OK, I'm asking. I've been there too, and I don't see any obvious and > serious deficiencies. >=20 > > FreeBSD is stuck in the 1980s. Raise your hand if you have > > installed FreeBSD in the last 20 years. >=20 >=20 > /me raises. >=20 > > That "UI" for partitioning the disks, so arcane. The whole install > > experience is awful. >=20 >=20 > Agreed, some of the installation tools could do with improvement. But > how often do you install FreeBSD? As I have already noted, I've been > using it for 25 years or so, and in the early days I held classes on > installing FreeBSD. By about 2000 they seemed a little pointless. In > general, once it's there, it's there. You seem to be emphasizing the > wrong part of the system. >=20 > > SunOS was a bug fixed BSD, so I really loved BSD. But BSD is so > > dead it is not even funny. Linux is light years ahead. Here is an > > example from more than 20 years ago. I was installing RedHat Linux > > and the machine I was installing on didn't have a mouse. The > > installer was graphical and it was just easier to tab through the > > options than go find a mouse. >=20 >=20 > Again, installation. How about using the system? And why should > you need a mouse to install software? >=20 > Greg > -- > Sent from my desktop computer. > Finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key. > See complete headers for address and phone numbers. > This message is digitally signed. If your Microsoft mail program > reports problems, please read http://lemis.com/broken-MUA.php It's been a few years since I installed a Linux distro, but FreeBSD's insta= llation process feels much more succinct, and agreed installation isn't som= ething you'd be doing all the time. In a production environment, I'd rathe= r have the thing scripted anyway, copy VMs, what have you. There's also something to be said for "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". D= ifferent strokes for different folks, if you're coming to UNIX from a Windo= ws world, the graphical install processes of many Linux distros are probabl= y right up your alley, but if you're a minimalist, it can feel like a bit m= uch. I'd be much more concerned if I'm installing systems so often by hand= that the quality of the installer is the make or break.... - Matt G.