From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.2 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_EF,HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: from zero.zsh.org (zero.zsh.org [IPv6:2a02:898:31:0:48:4558:7a:7368]) by inbox.vuxu.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D56CD22266 for ; Mon, 1 Apr 2024 22:18:56 +0200 (CEST) ARC-Seal: i=1; cv=none; a=rsa-sha256; d=zsh.org; s=rsa-20210803; t=1712002736; b=Ncxnpq/dbJHIIa4UZPkUbXFn4NyV352qGtnbF4RuLqeRtmgnMGCvRDV7M33xmDG4CNxUGt++OQ tkyzUmfbCSs1Z1Lch40MrfsK4vONXFXo1WNud7YKzC03u8UaNBS1Q7HrCgx3tZQzsOLBvD/ZG/ swPft6qs1Wx9oe92z5EwTDFKvTx7GqKQroIVIGHRVUmIJKSKyev1PYSMKJTipI16CfmuT/3YPN JzN0X+p4dx7dExZ4asYGT/9F42T+Txp+Nevcn6Fu3BMMBYUsllimJ/G+8lJ05rKtVtNlZ8bZE5 3EK5lKbeyYykJn+6D7BZQtU10HnK/IK3UXu6miHdpm22hA==; ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; zsh.org; iprev=pass (relay2-d.mail.gandi.net) smtp.remote-ip=217.70.183.194; dmarc=none header.from=chazelas.org; arc=none ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed; d=zsh.org; s=rsa-20210803; t=1712002736; bh=BcOcZD4BBWUwHrITYZ4W4tnhy2K5sxBs3031QoVqQmg=; h=List-Archive:List-Owner:List-Post:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:List-Help: List-Id:Sender:In-Reply-To:Content-Type:MIME-Version:References:Message-ID: Subject:Cc:To:From:Date:DKIM-Signature; b=TVoDw/7P5BzL3MUklsK/ueHn+MmzI2qhyWZrcfc9SuukLC2djxPIo19WODeTx/ZjssPl/IPHiG nFbQDOqQiB8lr2R/3fvYnX4Aqt7GD0VYClG/JoeSVd1NGheW8QTp+JUNpYHy9HAUzg1T+nyzMJ gx2RcA4kjuPKuyjch1sNcLXedcPpuEvW1JacI5kUaCVf0c2yTDPLt5U83mdwgRUemeyqhwhL0x j9s9Uro39wv1OK6uhG+mR1vsCjdo8teCabLVoHLFO5DXUoHhXew3NEsK1wVNiTAK7dOdKzTC5Z 2OpqoD5SLVflNmSaJB75IJJShMrAYNbUGLUmldakqCnhiQ==; DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=zsh.org; s=rsa-20210803; h=List-Archive:List-Owner:List-Post:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Help:List-Id:Sender:In-Reply-To:Content-Type:MIME-Version :References:Message-ID:Subject:Cc:To:From:Date:Reply-To: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date: Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID; bh=FhSxOxp3Tu0u4237oKPJQxhnSmGWZ7g/UVdEtQm9Qow=; b=NWa0kzO4wvZiSNDlLb9clMj6+U Kl7oeVNyBNI793u+yqkjX4JXqJo83ZzadTQ67TH8PJrCsy/WkQiMpSMS/e+hl2k5PeQmCkkWCF7U+ 8ODM0nbMCRuDRo+kdYvVeBV3hBb/2N5YwM/ybIOO7OXAV/L6MKbdG4F9h//nPhmsasO7lMUaUhXQo VI3SoFMbm1Hh209MEP6NjWu7brIYoTCPtXlGefJ/kGbG5F3YOqv2SdV7tAQhMMxyj3HyvijPYa+yh KizviADk1ziKfw96OXxHgfRSCaYzf0M5lznZ+g6ly8cM+WgS/FFtRFEIB0TiqM7SHgs5pkdvzbUVe gtjUeuvw==; Received: by zero.zsh.org with local id 1rrO7M-0000U6-3D; Mon, 01 Apr 2024 20:18:56 +0000 Authentication-Results: zsh.org; iprev=pass (relay2-d.mail.gandi.net) smtp.remote-ip=217.70.183.194; dmarc=none header.from=chazelas.org; arc=none Received: from relay2-d.mail.gandi.net ([217.70.183.194]:35899) by zero.zsh.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) id 1rrO79-0000B7-AL; Mon, 01 Apr 2024 20:18:44 +0000 Received: by mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id D5B5340003; Mon, 1 Apr 2024 20:18:41 +0000 (UTC) Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2024 21:18:41 +0100 From: Stephane Chazelas To: Bart Schaefer Cc: Zsh hackers list Subject: Re: Aliases that ignore "noaliases" Message-ID: <20240401201841.dpet5winsejmb3bn@chazelas.org> Mail-Followup-To: Bart Schaefer , Zsh hackers list References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-GND-Sasl: stephane@chazelas.org X-Seq: 52867 Archived-At: X-Loop: zsh-workers@zsh.org Errors-To: zsh-workers-owner@zsh.org Precedence: list Precedence: bulk Sender: zsh-workers-request@zsh.org X-no-archive: yes List-Id: List-Help: , List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Owner: List-Archive: 2024-04-01 12:59:09 -0700, Bart Schaefer: > There are some cases where it would be nice to be able to declare an > alias that "always works". The most obvious recent example would be > alias nameref='typeset -n' For the record, ksh used to have a number of builtin aliases, but they were causing all sort of problems including breaking POSIX compliance as things like suspend() { ...; } for instance would fail (as suspend used to be defined as a suspend='kill -s STOP $$' (yes, with the missing quotes around $$ (!), see https://github.com/att/ast/issues/10) So they were eventually changed to being separate builtins (on my request IIRC, though I can't find the bug report any longer). TLDR, I think zsh should avoid having builtin aliases. -- Stephane