From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: "Patrick Kelly" To: , "'Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs'" <9fans@9fans.net> References: <20100416115756.GA1107@polynum.com> <4BCC10F4020000CC00026FF4@wlgw07.wlu.ca> <201004242314.24052.corey@bitworthy.net> In-Reply-To: <201004242314.24052.corey@bitworthy.net> Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2010 11:22:24 -0400 Message-ID: <000001cae48b$1ca3bbc0$55eb3340$@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: [9fans] Mars Needs Women Topicbox-Message-UUID: 0d58fc14-ead6-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025 > -----Original Message----- > From: 9fans-bounces@9fans.net [mailto:9fans-bounces@9fans.net] On = Behalf Of Corey > Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2010 2:14 AM > To: 9fans@9fans.net > Subject: Re: [9fans] Mars Needs Women >=20 > On Saturday 24 April 2010 21:20:35 Rahul Murmuria wrote: > > > I would like to point out that the Glendix project has been doing > > something quite the opposite of what Corey wants, > > >=20 > ... that's not a strictly accurate statement. >=20 > It infers that "what Corey wants" is to bring GNU and Linux into > Plan 9. >=20 > Which isn't true. >=20 > The goal of the "Plan X" thought experiment was to query 9fans for > others who might also be interested in collaboration and discussion > regarding new and novel uses for Plan 9 os technologies. Then experiment! So far you've just gotten into philosophical arguments = rather than scientific discussion. > I think there's lot's of potential out there for Plan 9 in "Consumer = Space"... > I honestly thought that I might see more folks interested in imagining > what glenda looks like outside of the research and data center[1]. Yes there is, so why do you need a fork? Plan 9 would and will suffice. > 9fans does not have time for such nonsense. I have enough time to write a complete tool chain, and develop a system = that is similar to Plan 9. The difference between you and I, is that I = just start working on the project and talk later; you talk first and = then work when you can find enough people to minimize the work you have = to do. =20 >=20 > [1] ... and it's funny how, should glenda ever step outside the = building, > apparently everyone's paranoid that in all instances, she's going to = suddenly > become some sort of outlandish *nix/GNU freak-show the moment she = steps > out the door >=20 >=20 > > Imagine running the Linux kernel and all of regular GNU, with all = the > > Plan 9's sweetness patched in. My imagination may be a tad strange, but I see an obese chimera, = currently a mixture of the gnu, penguin, and bunny. A step in the right = direction isn't adding Plan 9 goodness to Linux, it's stripping the = badness out; but that=E2=80=99s an argument best suited for Glendix = people. > But combining GNU and Linux with Plan 9 is not at all what I'm = interested in. Good. > > Eventually, it would make the Plan 9's tools cooler by competition = and > > have them used ahead of the GNU alternatives... reduce bloat over = time > > by eliminating existing bloated projects (gcc?) which would = eventually > > be deemed out-of-fashion... > > >=20 > Personally, I think carefully identifying, then porting/forking just a = few, > _select_ pieces of software from the *nix space, then maintained = natively > in an alternative Plan 9 based distribution, is a more interesting and = direct > route. >=20 > Unfortunately - that means noisy discussion and collaboration amongst > people from a variety perspectives and skillsets/experience. Which is > anathema to 9fans lone-ranger aesthetics. Not at all an anathema, I understand what you're suggesting completely. = I just feel it's foolish and you haven't proved me wrong yet. > > but seriously, that's sooo awkward... same as trying to have Plan 9 = do > > stuff people from the Muggle world want... > > >=20 > This again shows the strange misconception I keep seeing repeated here > on this list: >=20 > The notion that the world is somehow bridled with people who hope to > somehow... transmogrify Plan 9 into Linux... and that an arena of > Plan9/Linux hybrids is the only other imaginable place that Plan 9 = could > possibly end up. I would like to keep Plan 9 from going down the same road UNIX went = down. Now one could argue that many of us are too much against that = change, but so far Plan 9 has had everything needed and is still sane. There's never been a reason people couldn't create forks or derivatives, = just because we don't "like change", doesn't mean a separate code base = couldn't be changed. > It's a weird phenomenon - but it appears to be an ingrained reflex of = the > 9fans ethos. Ethos (=E1=BC=A6=CE=B8=CE=BF=CF=82) is Greek for the accustomed place; = you may have meant ethikos (=E1=BC=A0=CE=B8=CE=B9=CE=BA=CF=8C=CF=82). The way many of us treat Plan 9, is paternal. We don't want to see our = baby gluttonizing on any code base she can get her hands on and we don't = want her shooting up the drug that is the FSF. But we are in this = amazing age where cloning is possible, so create a 'clone' and do what = you please. >=20 > Cheers