* Réf. : Re: [9fans] mothra @ 2000-07-19 12:05 boyd.roberts 2000-07-19 12:31 ` [9fans] " Howard Trickey 0 siblings, 1 reply; 5+ messages in thread From: boyd.roberts @ 2000-07-19 12:05 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans The next real hard part is getting the layout (especially tables!) sed | tbl | troff you see the way i'm thinking? ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 5+ messages in thread
* [9fans] Re: Réf. : Re: [9fans] mothra 2000-07-19 12:05 Réf. : Re: [9fans] mothra boyd.roberts @ 2000-07-19 12:31 ` Howard Trickey 2000-07-19 12:51 ` [9fans] " Lucio De Re 2000-07-19 19:57 ` [9fans] Re: Réf. : " Steve Kilbane 0 siblings, 2 replies; 5+ messages in thread From: Howard Trickey @ 2000-07-19 12:31 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans > sed | tbl | troff > > you see the way i'm thinking? Yes.. Now how do you draw a line from the end of the troff pipe back into tbl in your diagram? You need the full power of the layout engine available to the table processer, as sizing depends on the layout of nested tables in a very insidious way. and the real fun begins when a cell is allocated a certain width, and the contents don't fit. Or when the various width and pad specs of the whole nested set of tables are impossible to satisfy simultaneously. Then you have to "give up" in exactly the same way as Netscape and IE... (I seem to have the phrase burned on my brain, don't I?) And then try to handle images of unknown size arriving later, and try to minimize the number of unnecessary trial layouts. Most of my layout bugs were due to tables. - the fool ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 5+ messages in thread
* [9fans] Re: [9fans] Re: Réf. : Re: [9fans] mothra 2000-07-19 12:31 ` [9fans] " Howard Trickey @ 2000-07-19 12:51 ` Lucio De Re 2000-07-19 12:41 ` Colin DeVilbiss 2000-07-19 19:57 ` [9fans] Re: Réf. : " Steve Kilbane 1 sibling, 1 reply; 5+ messages in thread From: Lucio De Re @ 2000-07-19 12:51 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans On Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 08:31:09AM -0400, Howard Trickey wrote: > > Yes.. Now how do you draw a line from > the end of the troff pipe back into tbl in > your diagram? You need the full power > of the layout engine available to the table > processer, as sizing depends on the layout > of nested tables in a very insidious way. That seems unavoidable. And you've been there, I haven't :-) But it strikes me as a recursive descent problem that should really have only one solution, or, at worst, scroll bars :-) > and the real fun begins when a cell is allocated > a certain width, and the contents don't fit. > Or when the various width and pad specs > of the whole nested set of tables are > impossible to satisfy simultaneously. Perhaps some scaling knobs in the right places... > Then you have to "give up" in exactly the > same way as Netscape and IE... > (I seem to have the phrase burned on > my brain, don't I?) ... rather than rely on previous foolishness :-) > And then try to handle images of unknown > size arriving later, and try to minimize the > number of unnecessary trial layouts. > Except for the need to match prior art (which I understand and hope to be right in disregarding) I believe we can solve all these problems, if for no other reason that typography is not a recent invention. If we aim at elegance rather than "accuracy" (intentional scare quotes), and we make the product readily available, we may just swing enough decision makers to make a difference. If lynx wasn't so hideously ugly, I believe it would have made its mark in this sense too. > Most of my layout bugs were due to > tables. > How many were actual errors, versus mere divergence from a crooked de facto standard? > - the fool > Your experience is undoubtably invaluable. ++L ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 5+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] mothra 2000-07-19 12:51 ` [9fans] " Lucio De Re @ 2000-07-19 12:41 ` Colin DeVilbiss 0 siblings, 0 replies; 5+ messages in thread From: Colin DeVilbiss @ 2000-07-19 12:41 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans > If lynx wasn't so hideously ugly, I believe it would have made its > mark in this sense too. c.f. w3m, a unix curses-based web browser with pretty good table rendering, and one which can render frames by making them look like tables. http://ei5nazha.yz.yamagata-u.ac.jp/~aito/w3m/eng/ speaking from experience, it's good enough for me, but, being tied to cursor-addressability, isn:t a candidate for a direct port by any means. -- Colin DeVilbiss crdevilb@mtu.edu ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 5+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Re: Réf. : Re: [9fans] mothra 2000-07-19 12:31 ` [9fans] " Howard Trickey 2000-07-19 12:51 ` [9fans] " Lucio De Re @ 2000-07-19 19:57 ` Steve Kilbane 1 sibling, 0 replies; 5+ messages in thread From: Steve Kilbane @ 2000-07-19 19:57 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans > > sed | tbl | troff > > > > you see the way i'm thinking? > > Yes.. Now how do you draw a line from > the end of the troff pipe back into tbl in > your diagram? Well, I'm wondering if that needs to be there in general, anyway. I was thinking about providing user input for forms, and thinking about the browser sending that input to a separate program that reformats the component for the browser. Rather than receiving one-time data and attempting to process it, perhaps the browser can receive data from many streams from the translators, and tell each to reformat as the surrounding cells shuffle. > Most of my layout bugs were due to > tables. s/bugs/problems/ ? how many of them were real bugs, rather than brain-damage from page designers? steve ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 5+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2000-07-19 19:57 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 5+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed) -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 2000-07-19 12:05 Réf. : Re: [9fans] mothra boyd.roberts 2000-07-19 12:31 ` [9fans] " Howard Trickey 2000-07-19 12:51 ` [9fans] " Lucio De Re 2000-07-19 12:41 ` Colin DeVilbiss 2000-07-19 19:57 ` [9fans] Re: Réf. : " Steve Kilbane
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