From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID, MAILING_LIST_MULTI,NICE_REPLY_A,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE,RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 5524 invoked from network); 2 Feb 2022 13:23:12 -0000 Received: from tb-ob1.topicbox.com (64.147.108.173) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 2 Feb 2022 13:23:12 -0000 Received: from tb-mx0.topicbox.com (tb-mx0.nyi.icgroup.com [10.90.30.73]) by tb-ob1.topicbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 560BB30CDC for ; Wed, 2 Feb 2022 08:23:11 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from bounce.mM1f1023550e4f86e13077f76b.r522be890-2105-11eb-b15e-8d699134e1fa@9fans.bounce.topicbox.com) Received: by tb-mx0.topicbox.com (Postfix, from userid 1132) id 5303F14EF723; Wed, 2 Feb 2022 08:23:11 -0500 (EST) ARC-Authentication-Results: i=3; topicbox.com; arc=pass (as.1.zohomail.com=pass, ams.1.zohomail.com=pass) smtp.remote-ip=136.143.188.10; dkim=pass (1024-bit rsa key sha256) header.d=reliableid.com header.i=wes@ReliableID.com header.b=CruGo5Yp header.a=rsa-sha256 header.s=zoho x-bits=1024; dmarc=none policy.published-domain-policy=none policy.applied-disposition=none policy.evaluated-disposition=none (p=none,d=none,d.eval=none) policy.policy-from=p header.from=reliableid.com; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=wes@ReliableID.com smtp.helo=sender4-op-o10.zoho.com; x-internal-arc=fail (as.2.topicbox.com=pass, ams.2.topicbox.com=fail (message has been altered), as.1.zohomail.com=pass, ams.1.zohomail.com=fail (message has been altered)) (Message modified while forwarding at Topicbox) ARC-Message-Signature: i=3; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= topicbox.com; h=message-id:date:mime-version:subject:to :references:from:in-reply-to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:list-help:list-id:list-post :list-subscribe:reply-to:list-unsubscribe; s=sysmsg-1; t= 1643808191; bh=ssbh2TdZxJ0p3+SO/GUJ2vmYvsLlupErR8ffq5pY/j0=; b=P ASYG+YDZ34mVTM6pmAb3LlIYy/9R7mUtYmHjIq4eed0IPlW75ljfkr/x3H/oTDVQ v+0Z7C+LD9lfzl8e0K5syaTpr5GK3H+qSjzE5xl7V4zNpcRldWI8i/8bd8V5Ykzc pL45ir7OIX7YdNZDosiUdUx/P/CYkvKB+UbV+Mof5g= ARC-Seal: i=3; a=rsa-sha256; cv=pass; d=topicbox.com; s=sysmsg-1; t= 1643808191; b=ionD9qOCvQSvQcflhmpdIZiyYaWSi3hBGpnaM8Z31Fqd4r1v5C 7oDJEGANjjL365h9oYE/mbzWxnjnLHXbak2/sO7hEQi9oPZDJEpJyniGAup8Abqz eeSLm3DBfBLjxh7PuJjWOmM14t8NzdnI3MPJ+leNGhlacqqU2cOX3Su1o= Authentication-Results: topicbox.com; arc=pass (as.1.zohomail.com=pass, ams.1.zohomail.com=pass) smtp.remote-ip=136.143.188.10; dkim=pass (1024-bit rsa key sha256) header.d=reliableid.com header.i=wes@ReliableID.com header.b=CruGo5Yp header.a=rsa-sha256 header.s=zoho x-bits=1024; dmarc=none policy.published-domain-policy=none policy.applied-disposition=none policy.evaluated-disposition=none (p=none,d=none,d.eval=none) policy.policy-from=p header.from=reliableid.com; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=wes@ReliableID.com smtp.helo=sender4-op-o10.zoho.com; x-internal-arc=fail (as.2.topicbox.com=pass, ams.2.topicbox.com=fail (message has been altered), as.1.zohomail.com=pass, ams.1.zohomail.com=fail (message has been altered)) (Message modified while forwarding at Topicbox) X-Received-Authentication-Results: tb-mx0.topicbox.com; arc=pass (as.1.zohomail.com=pass, ams.1.zohomail.com=pass) smtp.remote-ip=136.143.188.10; bimi=skipped (DMARC did not pass); dkim=pass (1024-bit rsa key sha256) header.d=reliableid.com header.i=wes@ReliableID.com header.b=CruGo5Yp header.a=rsa-sha256 header.s=zoho x-bits=1024; dmarc=none policy.published-domain-policy=none policy.applied-disposition=none policy.evaluated-disposition=none (p=none,d=none,d.eval=none) policy.policy-from=p header.from=reliableid.com; iprev=pass smtp.remote-ip=136.143.188.10 (sender4-op-o10.zoho.com); spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=wes@ReliableID.com smtp.helo=sender4-op-o10.zoho.com; x-aligned-from=pass (Address match); x-me-sender=none; x-ptr=pass smtp.helo=sender4-op-o10.zoho.com policy.ptr=sender4-op-o10.zoho.com; x-return-mx=pass header.domain=reliableid.com policy.is_org=yes (MX Records found: mx2.zoho.com,mx.zoho.com); x-return-mx=pass smtp.domain=reliableid.com policy.is_org=yes (MX Records found: mx2.zoho.com,mx.zoho.com); x-tls=pass smtp.version=TLSv1.2 smtp.cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 smtp.bits=256/256; x-vs=clean score=0 state=0 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed; d=9fans.net; h=message-id :date:mime-version:subject:to:references:from:in-reply-to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:list-help:list-id :list-post:list-subscribe:reply-to:list-unsubscribe; s=dkim-1; bh=EZ/01KteAYynq7Q8C5O9DIn6U490BK8iaAcEkvftOS0=; b=c1aw01LGUCOg Ij5VR9olchaCQDTe3EHnF4wB5Qh+GZyhLgrgkF5hsHzZ6t2VsfIavNtnKGYNda3J v3Fbm4XB8O9OVon+FzF2qfrB0X+wt7Fe5NbXFevIegXwmOxPiBu/1+RaHtx0/mVK hfuub3XQLPofGoZ/8xCZshowyN1WxAE= Received: from tb-mx0.topicbox.com (localhost.local [127.0.0.1]) by tb-mx0.topicbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E27A14EF1C4 for <9fans@9fans.net>; Wed, 2 Feb 2022 08:22:54 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from wes@ReliableID.com) Received: from tb-mx0.topicbox.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tb-mx0.topicbox.com (Authentication Milter) with ESMTP id EE262EECE07; Wed, 2 Feb 2022 08:22:54 -0500 ARC-Seal: i=2; a=rsa-sha256; cv=pass; d=topicbox.com; s=arcseal; t= 1643808174; b=nWi+LwNwjcILzVIM4cw/Fd2LIuU1JyJmTFW1px0mIXROqGU80/ SvnzEQlaBTyalBsSFMvXYgq6JWRxWjzEjs/tSt9pVpuLupNUwlAnglSupLSNF1wr erDmj/aiueS/0uVZPUTDCUS2QBXwNOMj9a208A3a+VEI4KpabKt+JGrvzeG5cwFN bzXkU4loUNry6xuEWROL4D6lrTaG5ymgVS7k8xOWIazX0NaVOtODvHQ2IHixhIeu xaTuFjqZuFWup4ZlUhqrvUvA/NA+fY3TtF9hu4WsRfdpO/1dCLR38QHiYqs1GIsM j1cyxVzVBnrpHu3oo/9N9z36YL/uA1GZlwmA== ARC-Message-Signature: i=2; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= topicbox.com; h=message-id:date:mime-version:subject:to :references:from:in-reply-to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; s=arcseal; t=1643808174; bh=HE/lEZ9x 3YR05MEOMYxlXupdRrB0UyBEQ/D9hi3ZkVM=; b=MJ8I2DBUf/7SqmOpvaRC7Acz LCCDADktQGod3a6xjc2JvOuvmvtx4/V6D6/oEEv4eKOhRJVx3ee/Vw0Gb4uyI9Pu /8WNPl4H4ZQRQqBABHNKtSOxXLD21o0OY7p6cQ9MCOVqs0vvGjF0+rETWlcIHgAs bIhgpN/OuYS3AtBxM3hpalWb+exiNYYKnVFD7gFMQhyqDASU3D34QkjWH8Cd7GLN +ZwM8BMp/EGAGYZ5AVz4MRhs0bDVDBKiPBhI3SCxoQuPVEvRbbvbbSCQ/cFzKhJI k+yvXLq3NRRXTroTCqv7V72NHyw722KcJz9f3Uw4EqqAgZlRoYI32HGNNVngKQ== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=2; tb-mx0.topicbox.com; arc=pass (as.1.zohomail.com=pass, ams.1.zohomail.com=pass) smtp.remote-ip=136.143.188.10; bimi=skipped (DMARC did not pass); dkim=pass (1024-bit rsa key sha256) header.d=reliableid.com header.i=wes@ReliableID.com header.b=CruGo5Yp header.a=rsa-sha256 header.s=zoho x-bits=1024; dmarc=none policy.published-domain-policy=none policy.applied-disposition=none policy.evaluated-disposition=none (p=none,d=none,d.eval=none) policy.policy-from=p header.from=reliableid.com; iprev=pass smtp.remote-ip=136.143.188.10 (sender4-op-o10.zoho.com); spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=wes@ReliableID.com smtp.helo=sender4-op-o10.zoho.com; x-aligned-from=pass (Address match); x-me-sender=none; x-ptr=pass smtp.helo=sender4-op-o10.zoho.com policy.ptr=sender4-op-o10.zoho.com; x-return-mx=pass header.domain=reliableid.com policy.is_org=yes (MX Records found: mx2.zoho.com,mx.zoho.com); x-return-mx=pass smtp.domain=reliableid.com policy.is_org=yes (MX Records found: mx2.zoho.com,mx.zoho.com); x-tls=pass smtp.version=TLSv1.2 smtp.cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 smtp.bits=256/256; x-vs=clean score=0 state=0 X-ME-VSCause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedvvddrgedtgdektdculddtuddrgeduhedrtddtmd cutefuodetggdotefrodftvfcurfhrohhfihhlvgemucfhrghsthforghilhdpggftfghn shhusghstghrihgsvgdpuffrtefokffrpgfnqfghnecuuegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtne cunecujfgurhepkfffgggfuffvfhfhjggtgfesthejredttdefjeenucfhrhhomhephggv shcumfhushhsmhgruhhluceofigvshestfgvlhhirggslhgvkfffrdgtohhmqeenucggtf frrghtthgvrhhnpeegleehtefhvdfhveeiudfhieeiveffiedtgffgieefvdehffejgfel udfhhffhtdenucfkphepudefiedrudegfedrudekkedruddtpddvgedrvddukedrudduud drudekkeenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedtnecurfgrrhgrmhepihhnvghtpedufeei rddugeefrddukeekrddutddphhgvlhhopehsvghnuggvrhegqdhophdqohdutddriihohh hordgtohhmpdhmrghilhhfrhhomhepoeifvghsseftvghlihgrsghlvgfkffdrtghomheq X-ME-VSScore: 0 X-ME-VSCategory: clean Received-SPF: pass (reliableid.com: Sender is authorized to use 'wes@ReliableID.com' in 'mfrom' identity (mechanism 'include:zoho.com' matched)) receiver=tb-mx0.topicbox.com; identity=mailfrom; envelope-from="wes@ReliableID.com"; helo=sender4-op-o10.zoho.com; client-ip=136.143.188.10 Received: from sender4-op-o10.zoho.com (sender4-op-o10.zoho.com [136.143.188.10]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by tb-mx0.topicbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS for <9fans@9fans.net>; Wed, 2 Feb 2022 08:22:52 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from wes@ReliableID.com) ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1643808170; cv=none; d=zohomail.com; s=zohoarc; b=k+CpDvtSqFJ88wk1K9NMfFlV64Srnc4S5pFSqjqjL7gfignlNv7L9jMsZiNJihZAAnimEAUBhMpQe/+zF+O5ArAUqEbX3axoFBUko1DioA8Lnbx99TfY56fPebe5eAEisaDnsk6hvlhbpRbI2stD5lcNLt6lfb/Lx+KlIdTLLlU= ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=zohomail.com; s=zohoarc; t=1643808170; h=Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Date:From:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Message-ID:References:Subject:To; bh=HE/lEZ9x3YR05MEOMYxlXupdRrB0UyBEQ/D9hi3ZkVM=; b=B55f7HEWK8WaJYKHOUJu75gx9LAutSyvJ4pSYadaI3wogWg4Aqwa7fBYARzIv8AhyeEDLRVJOUqwUBKJvWJjMM9VUGAsICUIY/BhcU52niL2N0r5cuVu3kmkDj9cFLB7qjkL/Gh2PTLPF7UJpfPpGkK86XZpy/4AHtoq0JqTEqg= ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.zohomail.com; dkim=pass header.i=ReliableID.com; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=wes@ReliableID.com; dmarc=pass header.from= Received: from [192.168.4.31] (c-24-218-111-188.hsd1.ma.comcast.net [24.218.111.188]) by mx.zohomail.com with SMTPS id 1643808168220274.0778502293448; Wed, 2 Feb 2022 05:22:48 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <0d0312a8-ebc0-7b56-ef68-8a6264019fc3@ReliableID.com> Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2022 08:22:47 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/91.5.0 Subject: Re: [9fans] licence question Content-Language: en-US To: 9fans@9fans.net References: <16434613850.BC38c.59069@composer.9fans.topicbox.com> <56B4257D-6F93-401F-8ED3-8B9DC33504F3@mac.com> From: Wes Kussmaul In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-ZohoMailClient: External Topicbox-Policy-Reasoning: allow: sender is a member Topicbox-Message-UUID: 3d0daed2-842b-11ec-95af-fcd2386ba8e4 Archived-At: =?UTF-8?B?PGh0dHBzOi8vOWZhbnMudG9waWNib3guY29tL2dyb3Vwcy85?= =?UTF-8?B?ZmFucy9UM2UwN2JmZGYyNjNhODNjOC1NMWYxMDIzNTUwZTRmODZlMTMwNzdm?= =?UTF-8?B?NzZiPg==?= List-Help: List-Id: "9fans" <9fans.9fans.net> List-Post: List-Software: Topicbox v0 List-Subscribe: Precedence: list Reply-To: 9fans <9fans@9fans.net> List-Unsubscribe: , Topicbox-Delivery-ID: 2:9fans:437d30aa-c441-11e9-8a57-d036212d11b0:522be890-2105-11eb-b15e-8d699134e1fa:M1f1023550e4f86e13077f76b:1:YQFrMutjHUrkCzjtIcKnA1iGjUAkx7JtZ3ClTphHBBQ On 2/1/22 17:47, hiro wrote: >> I believe that David is right that it was a combination of running on >> really low-end hardware (in the early days, Torvalds accepted patches for >> just about anything), and a similarly low barrier to entry (others >> elsewhere have quipped about having to appease, "the Gods of BSD" to get >> anything into those systems) and the AT&T lawsuit, which was at best >> misguided but scared people off of BSD. > I always explain it the following way to the non-techies: > > You've heard of the appstore and how everybody wants to replicate > apple's "business model" behind it. > > Well, it turns out they didn't come up with it. > The true inventor was Linus Torvalds. > > Linux is an "appstore" for bad driver software. Maybe the first time > in human civilization where something so broken by design has become > the core underlying business plan and gained so much interest to > succeed at such scale and against all rationality. > > Apple had it all easy after this proof of concept. They sold half-ripe > hardware, with nearly none of the potential exploited by software, and > relied on mostly unvetted third-party submissions to fix that in > "apps". Worked for GNU/LINUX, makes apple rich, too. Hiro, you have absolutely hit the nail on the head. So, how do you add rationality and reliability to the=20 dpkg-app/play-store idea? Answer: emulate the ways this has been done for centuries in the=20 physical world. ------------------------------------------ 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T3e07bfdf263a83c8-M1f102= 3550e4f86e13077f76b Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription