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Sat, 29 Jan 2022 04:14:50 -0800 Message-ID: <0dcffcf1-371b-efd8-b0cf-4236af7f9185@fjrhome.net> Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2022 07:14:43 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.14; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/91.5.1 Subject: Re: [9fans] building blocks speaking 9p Content-Language: en-US To: 9fans@9fans.net References: From: "Frank D. Engel, Jr." In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Exim-Id: 0dcffcf1-371b-efd8-b0cf-4236af7f9185 X-Bayes-Prob: 0.9999 (Score 4, tokens from: base:default, @@RPTN) X-CanIt-Geo: No geolocation information available for 192.168.101.1 X-CanItPRO-Stream: base:default X-Canit-Stats-ID: 016MAf76F - d9961e54de50 - 20220129 X-Scanned-By: CanIt (www . roaringpenguin . com) on 192.168.101.82 X-Originating-IP: 192.168.101.82 Topicbox-Policy-Reasoning: allow: sender is a member Topicbox-Message-UUID: 1d534d76-80fd-11ec-951e-e986f7fd2869 Archived-At: =?UTF-8?B?PGh0dHBzOi8vOWZhbnMudG9waWNib3guY29tL2dyb3Vwcy85?= =?UTF-8?B?ZmFucy9UYTRlNTg0YTM3M2IwNTU1My1NMmJmYWU1Nzk3NmI1NGM5MTExNzc1?= =?UTF-8?B?ODI2Pg==?= List-Help: List-Id: "9fans" <9fans.9fans.net> List-Post: List-Software: Topicbox v0 List-Subscribe: Precedence: list Reply-To: 9fans <9fans@9fans.net> List-Unsubscribe: , Topicbox-Delivery-ID: 2:9fans:437d30aa-c441-11e9-8a57-d036212d11b0:522be890-2105-11eb-b15e-8d699134e1fa:M2bfae57976b54c9111775826:1:M6IIDkatIOOdWWyjZsdLIxVMdhzYwQKR52NZQsxQcTo Evidently there are two major standards: CDC, an official USB standard - specifications here:=20 https://www.usb.org/sites/default/files/CDC_EEM10.pdf RNDIS, a proprietary Microsoft protocol that Linux also provides drivers=20 for: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RNDIS The man page for usb/ether on plan9 indicates that CDC support is=20 already there but has not been tested; it may be that a good starting=20 point is in place and getting this tested would provide the required=20 support on the host side of things? On 1/29/22 6:56 AM, Frank D. Engel, Jr. wrote: > Apparently Linux includes drivers for tunneling IP over a USB=20 > connection (possibly to support mobile phones?=C2=A0 not sure...) > > Making host drivers compatible with these (if not already available)=20 > to share an IP stack and creating the equivalent device-side support=20 > for the "blocks" would allow 9P to be tunneled not only from these=20 > devices but also from other existing solutions in a wider variety of=20 > ways, also making it easier to connect those devices to Linux as there=20 > are ways to talk 9P from there. > > That may open up some additional flexibility? > > > On 1/29/22 4:16 AM, Skip Tavakkolian wrote: >> I've been working on something along those lines for IoT management >> and networking. Here's my laundry list of architectural and >> implementation pieces: >> >> 1. authentication: (a) tie devices to owner/user (b) authenticate >> users against third parties (via OIDC/SAML2, etc), (c) let the >> authenticated user provide the credentials to authenticate and use >> their devices via a namespace that follows an established convention >> (e.g. /joe/iot/0/secret). >> 2. device and capability discovery is a bootstrapping process, >> starting with a namespace that describes the availability of devices >> and features (analogous to '#c/drivers') >> 3. namespace to discover how to present the data from a particular >> source (e.g. a steam gauge widget would need to understand the >> namespace exported by a pressure sensor) >> 4. 9p libraries including fan-in, fan-out capability (i.e. mount, >> 9pserve) for FreeRTOS, Mbed OS,=C2=A0 ThreadX, Zephyr >> 5. libraries to localize user=E2=86=94device 9p traffic, while keeping >> authentication centralized (e.g. how @tailscale works) >> >> Initially IoT's would 9p-enable the SPI, I=C2=B2C, etc. sensors and >> actuators, until standards and conventions are established. >> >> For hardware, targeting things like SAMD21 boards seem more >> appropriate; they're cheap (e.g. Seeed XIAO). Even things like Nordic >> nRF52840 boards are below $10 and include the hardware to establish >> root-of-trust. >> >> >> On Thu, Jan 27, 2022 at 2:58 PM Bakul Shah wrote: >>> The idea: >>> - make it very easy to create hardware gadgets by >>> =C2=A0=C2=A0 providing a firmware/hardware building block that >>> =C2=A0=C2=A0 talks 9p on the host interface side & interfaces >>> =C2=A0=C2=A0 with device specific hardware. >>> >>> - use a "universal" 9p driver on the host side that >>> =C2=A0=C2=A0 allows access to any such 9p device even from a shell. >>> >>> - provide a standard way to find out device capabilities. >>> >>> - together they provide a plug-and-play setup. >>> >>> Example: connect an LED and a current sensor to this >>> 9p device, other necessary hardware, add a few config >>> bits and plug this device kn]]into a host. Now you should >>> be able to turn on/off the light or sense its state. >>> >>> Similarly you should be able to control a stepper motor >>> servo, cameras, microphones, other actuators, sensors, >>> IO etc. Eventually you should be able to snap together >>> enough of these components to build larger assemblies >>> such as a 3D printer. >>> >>> Another example: a "hub" to multiplex such downstream >>> devices and make them available to a host. >>> >>> This will probably have to ride on USB first. A verilog >>> implementation would be useful in an FPGA! >>> >>> Would this be a useful component? If such a thing were >>> available, what would you want to build with it? >>> >>> Do you think 9p is the right protocol for this? >>> >>> Ideally >>> - connect anything to anything >>> - authenticated connections >>> - drive the device through a shell script >>> - no new low level drivers >>> - self-identifying devices with help and command syntax >>> - signicantly eases the task of creating new h/w devices. >> ------------------------------------------ >> 9fans: 9fans >> Permalink:=20 >> https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/Ta4e584a373b05553-M79ef31466316e= 414d50336d2 >> Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription >> ------------------------------------------ 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/Ta4e584a373b05553-M2bfae= 57976b54c9111775826 Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription