* [9fans] Laptop advice @ 2008-06-07 11:27 lucio 2008-06-07 21:49 ` ron minnich 2008-06-08 16:47 ` Uriel 0 siblings, 2 replies; 25+ messages in thread From: lucio @ 2008-06-07 11:27 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans I'm looking for a laptop that will run Plan 9 native and not sacrifice too many of its features in the process. High resolution screen and supported Wi-Fi (possibly add-on, in which case, please recommend a product and a source) are particularly desirable assets, audio would be nice. I won't mind using an external mouse, seeing that there is little alternative. And considering that I'm likely to look for a refurbished model, it does not necessarily have to be Intel or AMD, a Mac need not be excluded. Let me know. I don't have to buy locally (South Africa) or in a hurry, so if anyone has something for sale that will travel safely, I may be very interested. ++L PS: I suspect I'll boot-select (Ubuntu) Linux most of the time and run Plan 9 under VMware server, but being able to boot-select a decent version of Plan 9 is absolutely essential. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Laptop advice 2008-06-07 11:27 [9fans] Laptop advice lucio @ 2008-06-07 21:49 ` ron minnich 2008-06-08 16:47 ` Uriel 1 sibling, 0 replies; 25+ messages in thread From: ron minnich @ 2008-06-07 21:49 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs I just got a fujitsu lifebook, which seems to be mostly compatible, or used to be. ron ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Laptop advice 2008-06-07 11:27 [9fans] Laptop advice lucio 2008-06-07 21:49 ` ron minnich @ 2008-06-08 16:47 ` Uriel 2008-06-09 12:13 ` Kernel Panic 2008-06-09 15:30 ` Digby Tarvin 1 sibling, 2 replies; 25+ messages in thread From: Uriel @ 2008-06-08 16:47 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs The classic T22 with the SXGA+ screen seem to still be the best (you should get an orinoco pcmcia card for wifi, which is the only one supported anyway). And they can be found quite cheaply (around 300$ I think). Of course, if you also want to run a recent lunix version or vista, or whatever, you probably will need something more 'modern'. uriel On Sat, Jun 7, 2008 at 1:27 PM, <lucio@proxima.alt.za> wrote: > I'm looking for a laptop that will run Plan 9 native and not sacrifice > too many of its features in the process. High resolution screen and > supported Wi-Fi (possibly add-on, in which case, please recommend a > product and a source) are particularly desirable assets, audio would > be nice. > > I won't mind using an external mouse, seeing that there is little > alternative. > > And considering that I'm likely to look for a refurbished model, it > does not necessarily have to be Intel or AMD, a Mac need not be > excluded. > > Let me know. I don't have to buy locally (South Africa) or in a > hurry, so if anyone has something for sale that will travel safely, I > may be very interested. > > ++L > > PS: I suspect I'll boot-select (Ubuntu) Linux most of the time and run > Plan 9 under VMware server, but being able to boot-select a decent > version of Plan 9 is absolutely essential. > > > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Laptop advice 2008-06-08 16:47 ` Uriel @ 2008-06-09 12:13 ` Kernel Panic 2008-06-09 13:01 ` lejatorn 2008-06-09 13:06 ` Lorenzo Fernando Bivens de la Fuente 2008-06-09 15:30 ` Digby Tarvin 1 sibling, 2 replies; 25+ messages in thread From: Kernel Panic @ 2008-06-09 12:13 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs Uriel wrote: > The classic T22 with the SXGA+ screen seem to still be the best (you > should get an orinoco pcmcia card for wifi, which is the only one > supported anyway). And they can be found quite cheaply (around 300$ I > think). Of course, if you also want to run a recent lunix version or > vista, or whatever, you probably will need something more 'modern'. > T23 works well too > uriel > cinap ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Laptop advice 2008-06-09 12:13 ` Kernel Panic @ 2008-06-09 13:01 ` lejatorn 2008-06-09 13:06 ` Lorenzo Fernando Bivens de la Fuente 1 sibling, 0 replies; 25+ messages in thread From: lejatorn @ 2008-06-09 13:01 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs T61 here. 1) Display working fine (intel X3100 chip). 2) At first I had problems with the ethernet and sata drivers but Erik fixed that. 3) Usb not always working (I have not investigated that thoroughly enough yet), but good enough for mouse. 4) Optical media burning somewhat working (dma deactivated and dvdrw burning fails.) 5) Sound not working (apparently because it's an intel HDA chip instead of the good ol one supported by ac97 driver). 6) wifi I don't care so I haven't even tried but I believe it's not supported anyway. Everything (that I know of) supported fine on linux if you care about that. Cheers, Mathieu. On Mon, Jun 09, 2008 at 02:13:46PM +0200, Kernel Panic wrote: > Uriel wrote: > >The classic T22 with the SXGA+ screen seem to still be the best (you > >should get an orinoco pcmcia card for wifi, which is the only one > >supported anyway). And they can be found quite cheaply (around 300$ I > >think). Of course, if you also want to run a recent lunix version or > >vista, or whatever, you probably will need something more 'modern'. > > > T23 works well too > >uriel > > > cinap > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Laptop advice 2008-06-09 12:13 ` Kernel Panic 2008-06-09 13:01 ` lejatorn @ 2008-06-09 13:06 ` Lorenzo Fernando Bivens de la Fuente 1 sibling, 0 replies; 25+ messages in thread From: Lorenzo Fernando Bivens de la Fuente @ 2008-06-09 13:06 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs HP Omnibook XE3 with a PCMCIA Orinoco card works too. It is an oldie though.... On Mon, Jun 9, 2008 at 7:13 AM, Kernel Panic <cinap_lenrek@gmx.de> wrote: > Uriel wrote: >> >> The classic T22 with the SXGA+ screen seem to still be the best (you >> should get an orinoco pcmcia card for wifi, which is the only one >> supported anyway). And they can be found quite cheaply (around 300$ I >> think). Of course, if you also want to run a recent lunix version or >> vista, or whatever, you probably will need something more 'modern'. >> > > T23 works well too >> >> uriel >> > > cinap > > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Laptop advice 2008-06-08 16:47 ` Uriel 2008-06-09 12:13 ` Kernel Panic @ 2008-06-09 15:30 ` Digby Tarvin 2008-06-09 15:45 ` Charles Forsyth ` (4 more replies) 1 sibling, 5 replies; 25+ messages in thread From: Digby Tarvin @ 2008-06-09 15:30 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs I could well believe that Vista would struggle on anything less than a Cray, but Linux isn't *that* demanding is it? I had a look at the T22 specs and they seem pretty respectable to me, at least compared to some of the systems I have Linux running on (eg 64MB, 266MHz Pentium MMX). And BSD is still running fine on my 48MB, 66MHz 486dx (although admitedly its not so good for running netscape or heavy crypto). Of course it might be different if I were trying to run full blown KDE or GNOME, but you can't really blame the operating system for that. (though a T22 looks like it would be able to handle it if necessary) I do find I tend to need a lot more HDD capacity than comes as standard on older machines when running a Unix variant. But even my old 486 was upgradeable from the original 122MB hard drive to a pair of 40GB drives, so it isn't usually a problem. Personally I think there is a lot to be said for doing development on modest spec'd machines, unless (like Microsoft) you have a vested interest in generating a need for hardware upgrades... Anyway - I found an old Thinkpad 600 in my junk box. Anyone know if that would make a useable Plan9 machine? DigbyT On Sun, Jun 08, 2008 at 06:47:53PM +0200, Uriel wrote: > The classic T22 with the SXGA+ screen seem to still be the best (you > should get an orinoco pcmcia card for wifi, which is the only one > supported anyway). And they can be found quite cheaply (around 300$ I > think). Of course, if you also want to run a recent lunix version or > vista, or whatever, you probably will need something more 'modern'. > > uriel > > On Sat, Jun 7, 2008 at 1:27 PM, <lucio@proxima.alt.za> wrote: > > I'm looking for a laptop that will run Plan 9 native and not sacrifice > > too many of its features in the process. High resolution screen and > > supported Wi-Fi (possibly add-on, in which case, please recommend a > > product and a source) are particularly desirable assets, audio would > > be nice. > > > > I won't mind using an external mouse, seeing that there is little > > alternative. > > > > And considering that I'm likely to look for a refurbished model, it > > does not necessarily have to be Intel or AMD, a Mac need not be > > excluded. > > > > Let me know. I don't have to buy locally (South Africa) or in a > > hurry, so if anyone has something for sale that will travel safely, I > > may be very interested. > > > > ++L > > > > PS: I suspect I'll boot-select (Ubuntu) Linux most of the time and run > > Plan 9 under VMware server, but being able to boot-select a decent > > version of Plan 9 is absolutely essential. > > > > > > -- Digby R. S. Tarvin digbyt(at)digbyt.com http://www.digbyt.com ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Laptop advice 2008-06-09 15:30 ` Digby Tarvin @ 2008-06-09 15:45 ` Charles Forsyth 2008-06-10 0:08 ` Roman Shaposhnik 2008-06-09 15:46 ` Charles Forsyth ` (3 subsequent siblings) 4 siblings, 1 reply; 25+ messages in thread From: Charles Forsyth @ 2008-06-09 15:45 UTC (permalink / raw) To: digbyt, 9fans > than a Cray, but Linux isn't *that* demanding is it? last week i added 1gb RAM to my previously 512mbyte lenovo (3000 N100) to stop the linux system from thrashing. all i run directly is firefox and drawterm. the system was fine at 512mbyte until a few weeks ago (when more updates arrived). i could probably have got by with `only' 256mbyte or 512mbyte more but the bigger memory card was hardly more expensive. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Laptop advice 2008-06-09 15:45 ` Charles Forsyth @ 2008-06-10 0:08 ` Roman Shaposhnik 2008-06-10 3:03 ` Digby Tarvin 0 siblings, 1 reply; 25+ messages in thread From: Roman Shaposhnik @ 2008-06-10 0:08 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs; +Cc: digbyt On Mon, 2008-06-09 at 16:45 +0100, Charles Forsyth wrote: > > than a Cray, but Linux isn't *that* demanding is it? > > last week i added 1gb RAM to my previously 512mbyte lenovo (3000 N100) to stop > the linux system from thrashing. all i run directly is firefox and drawterm. > the system was fine at 512mbyte until a few weeks ago (when more updates > arrived). > > i could probably have got by with `only' 256mbyte or 512mbyte more but the > bigger memory card was hardly more expensive. Since we're on the subject of memory hogs: does anybody know a way for querying Linux or Solaris (or any OS for that matter) of what the *physical* pages correspond to and how many virtual pages (and in which processes) they map into. The only utility that comes close is memstat: http://www.fifi.org/cgi-bin/man2html/usr/share/man/man1/memstat.1.gz but I don't quite believe its output, since it relies on the second hand information available from /proc/*/map and a really awkward mapping process. Thanks, Roman. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Laptop advice 2008-06-10 0:08 ` Roman Shaposhnik @ 2008-06-10 3:03 ` Digby Tarvin 2008-06-10 14:42 ` david bulkow 0 siblings, 1 reply; 25+ messages in thread From: Digby Tarvin @ 2008-06-10 3:03 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Roman Shaposhnik; +Cc: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs I don't think the virtual to physical mapping provides as much insight into memory usage as you might think... My understanding of the way it works in Linux (in the default Intel configuration) is that the 4GB virtual address space is split into 2 areas, the upper 1GB being a direct mapping to the first GB of physical memory, minus a small range of virtual address used as a window to access any physical memory in excess of 1GB (hence the distinction between high and low memory in the kernel). The lower 3GB of virtual address space is available for the currently running process, and is configured according to /proc/<pid>/maps Working out how your physical memory is currently being used seems to involve quite a few kernel data structures. I don't know of any utility that collates it all into anything other than general statistics. It would be an interesting thing to look at if anyone knows of one. Regards, DigbyT On Mon, Jun 09, 2008 at 05:08:06PM -0700, Roman Shaposhnik wrote: > On Mon, 2008-06-09 at 16:45 +0100, Charles Forsyth wrote: > > > than a Cray, but Linux isn't *that* demanding is it? > > > > last week i added 1gb RAM to my previously 512mbyte lenovo (3000 N100) to stop > > the linux system from thrashing. all i run directly is firefox and drawterm. > > the system was fine at 512mbyte until a few weeks ago (when more updates > > arrived). > > > > i could probably have got by with `only' 256mbyte or 512mbyte more but the > > bigger memory card was hardly more expensive. > > Since we're on the subject of memory hogs: does anybody know a way for > querying Linux or Solaris (or any OS for that matter) of what the > *physical* pages correspond to and how many virtual pages (and in which > processes) they map into. The only utility that comes close is memstat: > http://www.fifi.org/cgi-bin/man2html/usr/share/man/man1/memstat.1.gz > but I don't quite believe its output, since it relies on the second > hand information available from /proc/*/map and a really awkward mapping > process. > > Thanks, > Roman. -- Digby R. S. Tarvin digbyt(at)digbyt.com http://www.digbyt.com ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Laptop advice 2008-06-10 3:03 ` Digby Tarvin @ 2008-06-10 14:42 ` david bulkow 0 siblings, 0 replies; 25+ messages in thread From: david bulkow @ 2008-06-10 14:42 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Digby Tarvin, Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs On Mon, Jun 9, 2008 at 11:03 PM, Digby Tarvin <digbyt@acm.org> wrote: > I don't think the virtual to physical mapping provides as much > insight into memory usage as you might think... > > My understanding of the way it works in Linux (in the default > Intel configuration) is that the 4GB virtual address space is split > into 2 areas, the upper 1GB being a direct mapping to the first > GB of physical memory, minus a small range of virtual address used > as a window to access any physical memory in excess of 1GB (hence > the distinction between high and low memory in the kernel). > > The lower 3GB of virtual address space is available for the currently > running process, and is configured according to /proc/<pid>/maps > > Working out how your physical memory is currently being used seems > to involve quite a few kernel data structures. I don't know of any > utility that collates it all into anything other than general > statistics. It would be an interesting thing to look at if anyone > knows of one. > > Regards, > DigbyT > > On Mon, Jun 09, 2008 at 05:08:06PM -0700, Roman Shaposhnik wrote: >> On Mon, 2008-06-09 at 16:45 +0100, Charles Forsyth wrote: >> > > than a Cray, but Linux isn't *that* demanding is it? >> > >> > last week i added 1gb RAM to my previously 512mbyte lenovo (3000 N100) to stop >> > the linux system from thrashing. all i run directly is firefox and drawterm. >> > the system was fine at 512mbyte until a few weeks ago (when more updates >> > arrived). >> > >> > i could probably have got by with `only' 256mbyte or 512mbyte more but the >> > bigger memory card was hardly more expensive. >> >> Since we're on the subject of memory hogs: does anybody know a way for >> querying Linux or Solaris (or any OS for that matter) of what the >> *physical* pages correspond to and how many virtual pages (and in which >> processes) they map into. The only utility that comes close is memstat: >> http://www.fifi.org/cgi-bin/man2html/usr/share/man/man1/memstat.1.gz >> but I don't quite believe its output, since it relies on the second >> hand information available from /proc/*/map and a really awkward mapping >> process. >> >> Thanks, >> Roman. > > -- > Digby R. S. Tarvin digbyt(at)digbyt.com > http://www.digbyt.com > > The memory/page map only indicates utilization, not by whom. To determine physical page use one would have to traverse the list of processes and grovel through each of their virtual area maps to find the physical mappings - then add the kernel references, which involves another pile of structures in three regions. But we digress. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Laptop advice 2008-06-09 15:30 ` Digby Tarvin 2008-06-09 15:45 ` Charles Forsyth @ 2008-06-09 15:46 ` Charles Forsyth 2008-06-09 15:49 ` erik quanstrom ` (2 subsequent siblings) 4 siblings, 0 replies; 25+ messages in thread From: Charles Forsyth @ 2008-06-09 15:46 UTC (permalink / raw) To: digbyt, 9fans > Anyway - I found an old Thinkpad 600 in my junk box. Anyone know > if that would make a useable Plan9 machine? it should be fine. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Laptop advice 2008-06-09 15:30 ` Digby Tarvin 2008-06-09 15:45 ` Charles Forsyth 2008-06-09 15:46 ` Charles Forsyth @ 2008-06-09 15:49 ` erik quanstrom 2008-06-09 16:12 ` Lorenzo Fernando Bivens de la Fuente 2008-06-09 22:46 ` ron minnich 2008-06-10 7:53 ` Uriel 4 siblings, 1 reply; 25+ messages in thread From: erik quanstrom @ 2008-06-09 15:49 UTC (permalink / raw) To: digbyt, 9fans On Mon Jun 9 11:33:19 EDT 2008, digbyt@acm.org wrote: > I could well believe that Vista would struggle on anything less > than a Cray, but Linux isn't *that* demanding is it? > > I had a look at the T22 specs and they seem pretty respectable to > me, at least compared to some of the systems I have Linux running > on (eg 64MB, 266MHz Pentium MMX). > > And BSD is still running fine on my 48MB, 66MHz 486dx (although admitedly > its not so good for running netscape or heavy crypto). > > Of course it might be different if I were trying to run full blown > KDE or GNOME, but you can't really blame the operating system for that. > (though a T22 looks like it would be able to handle it if necessary) well the first thing most people run on linux is firefox, flash and acrobat. those three horsemen of the apocalypse bring my pIII/256mb machine to its knees. while your point is valid, the only reason i run linux at all is for the three horsemen. so maybe "linux" is not short for gnu/linux in most people's mind, it's short for firefox/linux. :-) - erik ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Laptop advice 2008-06-09 15:49 ` erik quanstrom @ 2008-06-09 16:12 ` Lorenzo Fernando Bivens de la Fuente 2008-06-09 16:35 ` Digby Tarvin ` (2 more replies) 0 siblings, 3 replies; 25+ messages in thread From: Lorenzo Fernando Bivens de la Fuente @ 2008-06-09 16:12 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs; +Cc: digbyt Who needs firefox having abaco ;) In fact I think linux has become more and more bloa... I mean resource demanding lately. Some years ago I had a 100MHz IBM (Cyrix?) 8MiB ram machine that made marvels for me... It is impressive what we did with so "little"... 3d modelling, raytracing... What did get so wrong that now people are willing to pay for a 1GiB ram minimum resource predator? Anyway... Someone told me that Toshiba Libretto C70 works good with plan 9... plus it is "VHS" sized. (I think that floppy is a little tricky... I'll have to ask) On Mon, Jun 9, 2008 at 10:49 AM, erik quanstrom <quanstro@coraid.com> wrote: > On Mon Jun 9 11:33:19 EDT 2008, digbyt@acm.org wrote: >> I could well believe that Vista would struggle on anything less >> than a Cray, but Linux isn't *that* demanding is it? >> >> I had a look at the T22 specs and they seem pretty respectable to >> me, at least compared to some of the systems I have Linux running >> on (eg 64MB, 266MHz Pentium MMX). >> >> And BSD is still running fine on my 48MB, 66MHz 486dx (although admitedly >> its not so good for running netscape or heavy crypto). >> >> Of course it might be different if I were trying to run full blown >> KDE or GNOME, but you can't really blame the operating system for that. >> (though a T22 looks like it would be able to handle it if necessary) > > well the first thing most people run on linux is firefox, flash and > acrobat. those three horsemen of the apocalypse bring my pIII/256mb > machine to its knees. > > while your point is valid, the only reason i run linux at all is for the > three horsemen. so maybe "linux" is not short for gnu/linux in most > people's mind, it's short for firefox/linux. :-) > > - erik > > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Laptop advice 2008-06-09 16:12 ` Lorenzo Fernando Bivens de la Fuente @ 2008-06-09 16:35 ` Digby Tarvin 2008-06-09 18:41 ` matt 2008-06-09 16:36 ` erik quanstrom 2008-06-09 16:48 ` Wes Kussmaul 2 siblings, 1 reply; 25+ messages in thread From: Digby Tarvin @ 2008-06-09 16:35 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs; +Cc: digbyt Actually, since you mention it, a Toshiba Libretto is one of the 'modest' machines I have Linux running on: Kernel command line: auto BOOT_IMAGE=linux/xaccel ro root=306 BOOT_FILE=/boot/vmlinuz monitor=xaccel Initializing CPU#0 Detected 166.637 MHz processor. Console: colour VGA+ 80x25 Calibrating delay loop... 332.59 BogoMIPS Memory: 62132k/65664k available (1263k kernel code, 3144k reserved, 370k data, 120k init, 0k highmem) I'm still running netscape on it because I fear Firefox may have bloated beyond its reasonable capabilities... It is a 100CT, not a 70, but maybe I should give it a try a try with plan9 too. And yes, the floppy is often problematic as it is an external PCMCIA device. The BIOS knows how to boot from it, but most installers fail when they try to access the floppy themselves (such as to load the driver for a PCMCIA CDROM drive or network card). There is a patch to get it working under Linux, but you need a non-standard install to get up to the point of being able to use it. Once you get over the install hurdle, however, it works just fine with most OSs. It might be a compact little Plan9 machine - if the 800x480 display isn't too limiting.. Regards, DigbyT On Mon, Jun 09, 2008 at 11:12:45AM -0500, Lorenzo Fernando Bivens de la Fuente wrote: > Who needs firefox having abaco ;) > > In fact I think linux has become more and more bloa... I mean resource > demanding lately. > Some years ago I had a 100MHz IBM (Cyrix?) 8MiB ram machine that made > marvels for me... > It is impressive what we did with so "little"... 3d modelling, raytracing... > What did get so wrong that now people are willing to pay for a 1GiB > ram minimum resource predator? > > Anyway... Someone told me that Toshiba Libretto C70 works good with > plan 9... plus it is "VHS" sized. > (I think that floppy is a little tricky... I'll have to ask) > > > On Mon, Jun 9, 2008 at 10:49 AM, erik quanstrom <quanstro@coraid.com> wrote: > > On Mon Jun 9 11:33:19 EDT 2008, digbyt@acm.org wrote: > >> I could well believe that Vista would struggle on anything less > >> than a Cray, but Linux isn't *that* demanding is it? > >> > >> I had a look at the T22 specs and they seem pretty respectable to > >> me, at least compared to some of the systems I have Linux running > >> on (eg 64MB, 266MHz Pentium MMX). > >> > >> And BSD is still running fine on my 48MB, 66MHz 486dx (although admitedly > >> its not so good for running netscape or heavy crypto). > >> > >> Of course it might be different if I were trying to run full blown > >> KDE or GNOME, but you can't really blame the operating system for that. > >> (though a T22 looks like it would be able to handle it if necessary) > > > > well the first thing most people run on linux is firefox, flash and > > acrobat. those three horsemen of the apocalypse bring my pIII/256mb > > machine to its knees. > > > > while your point is valid, the only reason i run linux at all is for the > > three horsemen. so maybe "linux" is not short for gnu/linux in most > > people's mind, it's short for firefox/linux. :-) > > > > - erik > > > > -- Digby R. S. Tarvin digbyt(at)digbyt.com http://www.digbyt.com ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Laptop advice 2008-06-09 16:35 ` Digby Tarvin @ 2008-06-09 18:41 ` matt 2008-06-09 20:08 ` Lorenzo Fernando Bivens de la Fuente 2008-06-10 4:01 ` lucio 0 siblings, 2 replies; 25+ messages in thread From: matt @ 2008-06-09 18:41 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs Back in March people were trying the EEEPC with slight progress - did anyone get any joy there ? I have a T23 which is a good Plan 9 laptop with Orinoco PCMCIA WiFi, though I've not tried the AC97 They are under 200 euros on ebay with 512Mb & 80Gb 1024x768 screen 3 buttons and a nipple not a touchpad no Windows key :) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Laptop advice 2008-06-09 18:41 ` matt @ 2008-06-09 20:08 ` Lorenzo Fernando Bivens de la Fuente 2008-06-10 4:01 ` lucio 1 sibling, 0 replies; 25+ messages in thread From: Lorenzo Fernando Bivens de la Fuente @ 2008-06-09 20:08 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs I am trying Eeepc... But I've had a lot of work lately, so I've fallen into the lunix dark side in the meanwhile. I think it is "mostly" an usb bootability matter. Eeepc ain't very exotic... On Mon, Jun 9, 2008 at 1:41 PM, matt <mattmobile@proweb.co.uk> wrote: > Back in March people were trying the EEEPC with slight progress - did anyone > get any joy there ? > > > I have a T23 which is a good Plan 9 laptop with Orinoco PCMCIA WiFi, though > I've not tried the AC97 > > They are under 200 euros on ebay with 512Mb & 80Gb > > 1024x768 screen > > 3 buttons and a nipple not a touchpad > > no Windows key :) > > > > > > > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Laptop advice 2008-06-09 18:41 ` matt 2008-06-09 20:08 ` Lorenzo Fernando Bivens de la Fuente @ 2008-06-10 4:01 ` lucio 2008-06-10 7:07 ` matt 2008-06-11 8:04 ` John Waters 1 sibling, 2 replies; 25+ messages in thread From: lucio @ 2008-06-10 4:01 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans > 3 buttons and a nipple not a touchpad > > no Windows key :) These are concrete assets. I know at least one other laptop user (I have an old Compac Presario 900, he has a newer Acer or some such) that manages to trigger the touchpad without touching it. Very, very annoying. As for the Windows key, on the limited keyboard real estate of a laptop, it is a serious waste. ++L ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Laptop advice 2008-06-10 4:01 ` lucio @ 2008-06-10 7:07 ` matt 2008-06-11 8:04 ` John Waters 1 sibling, 0 replies; 25+ messages in thread From: matt @ 2008-06-10 7:07 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs >> 3 buttons and a nipple not a touchpad >> >> no Windows key :) >> > > These are concrete assets. I know, that's why I reported them. Chording with a touchpad is something you could show at a circus. I'm running low on three button mouses too :( ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Laptop advice 2008-06-10 4:01 ` lucio 2008-06-10 7:07 ` matt @ 2008-06-11 8:04 ` John Waters 2008-06-11 12:57 ` Russ Cox 1 sibling, 1 reply; 25+ messages in thread From: John Waters @ 2008-06-11 8:04 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs I have an LG A1 "Dual Express" notebook that I bought here in Riyadh a few months ago. It also has a PRPD (pseudorandom pointing device) and it has nearly driven me to the point of spazzing out on several occasions. Other than that it is a great litte laptop. Since it has an external USB device I have not loaded plan9 on bare metal, I run it on VMWare workstation 6. Which brings me to a question: Does anyone have trouble booting new installations of plan9 on vmware6? I turn off hwaccel, load the os, and after the install completes and the system reboots it just hangs. I am still using systems built on Mahmoud's vmware image (for which I am indeed grateful). I would very much like to do clean installs on vmware, especially since I am evangelizing plan9 as much as possible here in Saudi and using it to teach my trainees about operating systems. John On Tue, Jun 10, 2008 at 7:01 AM, <lucio@proxima.alt.za> wrote: >> 3 buttons and a nipple not a touchpad >> >> no Windows key :) > > These are concrete assets. I know at least one other laptop user (I > have an old Compac Presario 900, he has a newer Acer or some such) > that manages to trigger the touchpad without touching it. Very, very > annoying. As for the Windows key, on the limited keyboard real estate > of a laptop, it is a serious waste. > > ++L > > > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Laptop advice 2008-06-11 8:04 ` John Waters @ 2008-06-11 12:57 ` Russ Cox 0 siblings, 0 replies; 25+ messages in thread From: Russ Cox @ 2008-06-11 12:57 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans > Does anyone have trouble booting new installations of plan9 on > vmware6? I turn off hwaccel, load the os, and after the install > completes and the system reboots it just hangs. I am still using > systems built on Mahmoud's vmware image (for which I am indeed > grateful). Delete the CD drive from the configuration. Plan 9 and VMware disagree on how an empty CD drive should behave. Russ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Laptop advice 2008-06-09 16:12 ` Lorenzo Fernando Bivens de la Fuente 2008-06-09 16:35 ` Digby Tarvin @ 2008-06-09 16:36 ` erik quanstrom 2008-06-09 16:48 ` Wes Kussmaul 2 siblings, 0 replies; 25+ messages in thread From: erik quanstrom @ 2008-06-09 16:36 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans On Mon Jun 9 12:14:50 EDT 2008, lorenzobivens@gmail.com wrote: > Who needs firefox having abaco ;) > anyone who wishes to access a site depending on javascript. - erik ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Laptop advice 2008-06-09 16:12 ` Lorenzo Fernando Bivens de la Fuente 2008-06-09 16:35 ` Digby Tarvin 2008-06-09 16:36 ` erik quanstrom @ 2008-06-09 16:48 ` Wes Kussmaul 2 siblings, 0 replies; 25+ messages in thread From: Wes Kussmaul @ 2008-06-09 16:48 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs Lorenzo Fernando Bivens de la Fuente wrote: > What did get so wrong that now people are willing to pay for a 1GiB > ram minimum resource predator? 1. We allowed the revenue generation plans of the processor & memory manufacturers drive the client machine design agenda through their software partners and their layers of VARs 2. We allowed standards-by-committees-of-committees uberdemocracy to prevent real design sense (as directed from one good brain) from prevailing 3. We prevented any form of DCPA (duly constituted public authority) from being able to say: "No, you are not permitted to add another layer of abstraction to get around the committee-driven standards. You'll have to convince me that the standards need to be changed." But there's a silver lining. With every passing day it becomes more apparent to the slightly smarter than average bloke (or blokette) that things have gotten out of hand. One must hit bottom for there to be a desire for change... See minutes 1:43 - 1:54 of this video: rtsp://ibs.itu.int/archives3/wsis/200805c5/22pm.qt ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Laptop advice 2008-06-09 15:30 ` Digby Tarvin ` (2 preceding siblings ...) 2008-06-09 15:49 ` erik quanstrom @ 2008-06-09 22:46 ` ron minnich 2008-06-10 7:53 ` Uriel 4 siblings, 0 replies; 25+ messages in thread From: ron minnich @ 2008-06-09 22:46 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Digby Tarvin, Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs On Mon, Jun 9, 2008 at 8:30 AM, Digby Tarvin <digbyt@acm.org> wrote: > I could well believe that Vista would struggle on anything less > than a Cray, but Linux isn't *that* demanding is it? > Linux is an utter porker. ubuntu on my T23 is really awful, I fixed it by turning most of it off. They've fallen into the layers of abstraction trap, achieved more and more with the ever popular initialized structures (by ld of course) that point this way, that way, and every way. I had the fun experience recently of tracking a write system call via nfs3. Impressive that it works, impressive in its complexity, depressing in most ways. Just look at the OLPC stuff. Linux and Sugar environment now make XP look fast. Now that's a sad comment. Besides, most crays nowadays are made of opterons that run slower than your laptop :-) ron ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Laptop advice 2008-06-09 15:30 ` Digby Tarvin ` (3 preceding siblings ...) 2008-06-09 22:46 ` ron minnich @ 2008-06-10 7:53 ` Uriel 4 siblings, 0 replies; 25+ messages in thread From: Uriel @ 2008-06-10 7:53 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Digby Tarvin, Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs > Anyway - I found an old Thinkpad 600 in my junk box. Anyone know > if that would make a useable Plan9 machine? Should work fine, I have ran Plan 9 on 600E and 600X for years... they can still build a kernel in under a minute if my memory doesn't fail me (certainly not much more). uriel ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2008-06-11 12:57 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 25+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed) -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 2008-06-07 11:27 [9fans] Laptop advice lucio 2008-06-07 21:49 ` ron minnich 2008-06-08 16:47 ` Uriel 2008-06-09 12:13 ` Kernel Panic 2008-06-09 13:01 ` lejatorn 2008-06-09 13:06 ` Lorenzo Fernando Bivens de la Fuente 2008-06-09 15:30 ` Digby Tarvin 2008-06-09 15:45 ` Charles Forsyth 2008-06-10 0:08 ` Roman Shaposhnik 2008-06-10 3:03 ` Digby Tarvin 2008-06-10 14:42 ` david bulkow 2008-06-09 15:46 ` Charles Forsyth 2008-06-09 15:49 ` erik quanstrom 2008-06-09 16:12 ` Lorenzo Fernando Bivens de la Fuente 2008-06-09 16:35 ` Digby Tarvin 2008-06-09 18:41 ` matt 2008-06-09 20:08 ` Lorenzo Fernando Bivens de la Fuente 2008-06-10 4:01 ` lucio 2008-06-10 7:07 ` matt 2008-06-11 8:04 ` John Waters 2008-06-11 12:57 ` Russ Cox 2008-06-09 16:36 ` erik quanstrom 2008-06-09 16:48 ` Wes Kussmaul 2008-06-09 22:46 ` ron minnich 2008-06-10 7:53 ` Uriel
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