From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.1 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU,HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3,RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL,T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 3017 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2022 15:08:15 -0000 Received: from tb-ob0.topicbox.com (64.147.108.117) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 1 Feb 2022 15:08:15 -0000 Received: from tb-mx0.topicbox.com (tb-mx0.nyi.icgroup.com [10.90.30.73]) by tb-ob0.topicbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 55E471991C for ; Tue, 1 Feb 2022 10:08:14 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from bounce.mM3273bb43a0299b4d186eef36.r522be890-2105-11eb-b15e-8d699134e1fa@9fans.bounce.topicbox.com) Received: by tb-mx0.topicbox.com (Postfix, from userid 1132) id 51B9B14ECDA8; Tue, 1 Feb 2022 10:08:14 -0500 (EST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed; d=9fans.net; h=to:subject :message-id:references:in-reply-to:date:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:from:list-help:list-id :list-post:list-subscribe:reply-to:list-unsubscribe; s=dkim-1; bh=PPfISyxl+lWJisSSfozxt899CEcVaIxDs1j24bPiGgA=; b=fgA4/NlWhsdo HkyBBYxteN//6p3EMouqv3iPL7Xjws9PqdH+iOMlNNm9oZqxGk4j78kqOAZlaJMp d81c8nfVM9OpHJaB3BXiwkwugVAQRUvwY2ZbyfO6fGsly2uFiPkroyzTOsK77l+B nFy9T+2Hhe7FikD2FoGbhpu431w+Ii4= To: 9fans <9fans@9fans.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] licence question Message-Id: <16437280880.B3cF82.11186@composer.9fans.topicbox.com> References: <16433324650.ff90B.935638@composer.9fans.topicbox.com> <16433713090.e62E5Cc03.507002@composer.9fans.topicbox.com> <16434613850.BC38c.59069@composer.9fans.topicbox.com> <16434652910.557dFF03.267022@composer.9fans.topicbox.com> <16434919380.1068C1061.56471@composer.9fans.topicbox.com> <16434950120.e286ed8c.18342@composer.9fans.topicbox.com> <2993bf0b-ca39-49f6-8b32-d126279f859f@sirjofri.de> <16434994000.2BA5.73427@composer.9fans.topicbox.com> <16435091140.eDE43962.999357@composer.9fans.topicbox.com> In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2022 10:08:08 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=16437280881.F434d0.11186 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Topicbox-Policy-Reasoning: allow: sender is a member Topicbox-Message-UUID: c3bcb3c6-8370-11ec-b2ae-cd369134e1fa Archived-At: =?UTF-8?B?PGh0dHBzOi8vOWZhbnMudG9waWNib3guY29tL2dyb3Vwcy85?= =?UTF-8?B?ZmFucy9UM2UwN2JmZGYyNjNhODNjOC1NMzI3M2JiNDNhMDI5OWI0ZDE4NmVl?= =?UTF-8?B?ZjM2Pg==?= From: "ibrahim via 9fans" <9fans@9fans.net> List-Help: List-Id: "9fans" <9fans.9fans.net> List-Post: List-Software: Topicbox v0 List-Subscribe: Precedence: list Reply-To: 9fans <9fans@9fans.net> List-Unsubscribe: , Topicbox-Delivery-ID: 2:9fans:437d30aa-c441-11e9-8a57-d036212d11b0:522be890-2105-11eb-b15e-8d699134e1fa:M3273bb43a0299b4d186eef36:1:_iB6NK_p_bxUbOQi2STGIdC4c10Je-cZJXElNt2uM6c --16437280881.F434d0.11186 Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2022 10:08:08 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sunday, 30 January 2022, at 10:00 PM, ron minnich wrote: > That happened about 10 years earlier. The effort I am talking about with jmk was 2013; the dustup with Theo was circa 2003: Thanks for sharing those facts. On Saturday, 29 January 2022, at 3:26 PM, David Leimbach wrote: > I haven=E2=80=99t ever heard the compiler tool chain was a big reason, bu= t I=E2=80=99d be interested to hear your perspective here. GCC can produce = code of any license. Until the BSD systems switched to llvm even the most basic installment was = depending on gcc. The integrated system compiler was gpl'ed and on a unix s= ystem where the c compiler was the most important tool to achive portabilit= y this did never seem right. On Tuesday, 1 February 2022, at 3:12 PM, Dan Cross wrote: > This isn't really on-topic for 9fans, but I find this hard to believe. Li= nux used the exact same compiler suite, and became wildly successful while = the BSD distributions mostly stagnated; certainly, the BSDs never grew at t= he rate or reached the levels of popularity that Linux has attained: it was= n't the license on the toolchain. Berkeley stopped their distribution of BSD systems right after they were fo= rced to remove the toolchain. The last releases were 4.3 and 4.4 lite. Then= the project got forked. It led to a stop in development. I personally beli= eve that this was the main reason behind the BSD's to lose their charm. If = you read about the reasoning why as an example Minix or even plan9 got thei= r own toolchains I think you can read between the lines that the lack or th= e existence of a toolchain with the right license is far more important tha= n many believe. Of course this is only my personal opinion and probably I'm misinterpreting= things. ------------------------------------------ 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T3e07bfdf263a83c8-M3273b= b43a0299b4d186eef36 Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription --16437280881.F434d0.11186 Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2022 10:08:08 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Sunday, 30 January 2022, at 10:00 PM, ron m= innich wrote:
That happened about 10 y= ears earlier. The effort I am talking about with jmk was 2013; the dustup with Theo was circa 2003:
<= div>
Thanks for sharing those facts.

=
On Saturday, 29 January 2022, at 3:26 PM, David Leimbach wrote:<= br />
I haven’t ever heard the compile= r tool chain was a big reason, but I’d be interested to hear your per= spective here. GCC can produce code of any license.
=
Until the BSD systems switched to llvm even the most basic= installment was depending on gcc. The integrated system compiler was gpl&#= 39;ed and on a unix system where the c compiler was the most important tool= to achive portability this did never seem right.

On Tuesday, 1 February 2022, at 3:12 PM, Dan Cross wrote:
This isn't really on-topic for 9fans, but I find this hard = to believe. Linux used the exact same compiler suite, and became wildly suc= cessful while the BSD distributions mostly stagnated; certainly, the BSDs n= ever grew at the rate or reached the levels of popularity that Linux has at= tained: it wasn't the license on the toolchain.
=

Berkeley stopped their distribution of B= SD systems right after they were forced to remove the toolchain. The last r= eleases were 4.3 and 4.4 lite. Then the project got forked. It led to a sto= p in development. I personally believe that this was the main reason behind= the BSD's to lose their charm. If you read about the reasoning why as = an example Minix or even plan9 got their own toolchains I think you can rea= d between the lines that the lack or the existence of a toolchain with the = right license is far more important than many believe.

Of course this is only my personal opinion and probably I'= m misinterpreting things.

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