From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.9 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU,HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,HTML_MESSAGE, MAILING_LIST_MULTI,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE,T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: from tb-ob0.topicbox.com (tb-ob0.topicbox.com [64.147.108.117]) by inbox.vuxu.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2CFC021800 for ; Fri, 26 Jan 2024 16:44:31 +0100 (CET) Received: from tb-mx0.topicbox.com (tb-mx0.nyi.icgroup.com [10.90.30.73]) by tb-ob0.topicbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC276273E1 for ; Fri, 26 Jan 2024 10:44:30 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from bounce.mMaa6107f74c1a7fea86f95542.r522be890-2105-11eb-b15e-8d699134e1fa@9fans.bounce.topicbox.com) Received: by tb-mx0.topicbox.com (Postfix, from userid 1132) id D7595BD82A4; Fri, 26 Jan 2024 10:44:30 -0500 (EST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed; d=9fans.net; h=to:subject :message-id:in-reply-to:references:date:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:list-help:list-id :list-post:list-subscribe:reply-to:from:list-unsubscribe; s= dkim-1; t=1706283870; x=1706370270; bh=O4ol9ImxnqvZy3GcYKR4WPtV1 5rFA3T9vJimIXfAXvI=; b=BFQDsGCVy0XStRQpOXw6wUI5tgM8z8AswKeeX+Ptx y4VRpzOC/LKb8+W3tkxAcZsl8Nkdr75hi+Z9HknPxDPDQTpDCUJPv18e+c+ltqit n3dRjOITqfOxGzayNtvnHzj66gUo6jVA8ZQ66yUF5dM1zvo8pSqA2vW+L4nWr7nj Co= To: 9fans <9fans@9fans.net> Subject: Re: Charting the Future: Envisioning Plan 9 Release 5 for the 9fans Community. [Was:Re: [9fans] Supported Notebooks] Message-Id: <17062838640.98bdA1.82196@composer.9fans.topicbox.com> In-Reply-To: <83E4336EACC51025E08A98BF40F0414F@pixelhero.dev> References: <83E4336EACC51025E08A98BF40F0414F@pixelhero.dev> Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2024 10:44:24 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=17062838641.23C1BEB3.82196 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Topicbox-Policy-Reasoning: allow: sender is a member Topicbox-Message-UUID: c82190b8-bc61-11ee-baf2-34f640decc0b Archived-At: =?UTF-8?B?PGh0dHBzOi8vOWZhbnMudG9waWNib3guY29tL2dyb3Vwcy85?= =?UTF-8?B?ZmFucy9UNDJmMTFlMDI2NWJjZmExOC1NYWE2MTA3Zjc0YzFhN2ZlYTg2Zjk1?= =?UTF-8?B?NTQyPg==?= List-Help: List-Id: "9fans" <9fans.9fans.net> List-Post: List-Software: Topicbox v0 List-Subscribe: Precedence: list Reply-To: 9fans <9fans@9fans.net> From: "ibrahim via 9fans" <9fans@9fans.net> List-Unsubscribe: , Topicbox-Delivery-ID: 2:9fans:437d30aa-c441-11e9-8a57-d036212d11b0:522be890-2105-11eb-b15e-8d699134e1fa:Maa6107f74c1a7fea86f95542:1:82qz2wTS6k6Zqa8D12367aBm3iDA6kT6QywB_T6Lbso --17062838641.23C1BEB3.82196 Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2024 10:44:24 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable First of all, I have my own fork of plan9 which was/is used by a few hundre= d users. My fork is based on 9legacy. And I'm really surprised to regularly see this= discussion about a 'mainline' and the argumentation against 9front. Fact i= s : 9legacy provides patches and enhancements from 9front. I don't have a p= roblem with those back ported code which is distributed under an MIT licens= e.=20 I don't use 9front or 9legacy directly but for some time now my own forked = systems with different gui (desktop), editors, fontsystem, filesystem and a= different coding style cause I prefer object oriented programming with C m= ade possible with a preprocessor which translates to C. I'm not part of 9front neither of 9legacy. I'm following the 9front mailing= lists for bug reports or announcements of code interesting enough to port = to my system. Some improvements in 9front especially regarding drivers and = support for hardware are worth the effort to run a diff and port changes to= my system. 9front has a large user group and its natural that needs of suc= h a large community improve hardware support. I use code imported by 9legac= y for booting which simplified my fork and made booting on modern hardware = possible. If 9legacy is the so called 'mainline' then 9legacy uses also back ported c= ode from 9front. 9legacy is not 4e and it contains code enhancements from o= ther forks of plan9 too. 4e is the last official release, 9legacy provides patches and enhancements = back ported from forks of plan9. In my opinion 9fans is a meeting point not= only for users of plan9 4e but also everyone who uses a fork of plan9. All= forks share some code with varying amounts.=20 I have my own fork and you wouldn't be able to tell by looking at the deskt= op or the boot screen that my fork is based on plan9, 9legacy, 9front as a = user if this information wasn't placed due to the MIT license. My system is= based on ideas code from plan9, 9legacy, 9fork and indirectly on code from= other forks which were back ported by 9legacy this makes me part of the 9f= ans community like all those who are using plan9 directly or in the form of= a port.=20 The owner of plan9 4e - Nokia - relicensed plan9 under an MIT license. Usin= g, forking, changing, distributing plan9 following this new license is some= thing everyone can decide by him-/herself. No one needs any kind of approva= l from anybody as long as you fulfill the license clauses.=20 My fork is based on plan9 - dot - 9front is based on plan9 - dot - 9legacy = is based on 9legacy - dot and this is true for all forks which are related = with plan9. By the way the original coders of plan9 also created a fork inf= erno. All forks are related with plan9. 9fans is a board where those intere= sted in plan9 and its forks can meet an discuss. Whenever I need some infor= mation about problems existing in plan9 code I search for earlier posts on = this mailing list, when I don't find relevant information I search the mail= ing list of 9front and others to find hints for solving the problem.=20 I don't like this discussion about 'mainline' and forks on this list. plan9= is MIT licensed and can be used in its original form (if possible on moder= n hardware) or as a fork. Everyone can fork it and use it as he or she sees= fit.=20 I don't use 9front directly and sometimes discussions with people from 9fro= nt get irritating but this doesn't change the fact that they have a fork wh= ich is based on plan9 with a very good code quality that resembles the orig= inal form to an extent that it can be back ported with very small effort. O= kay sometimes the effort gets bigger but thats the price you have to pay if= you create your own fork and try to use code from another fork. I don't know any members of 9front by person never met any of them. But I d= on't like the way some on this board are discriminating people who have for= ked from plan9 or use forked versions. Who do you think you are ? Even the authors of plan9 forked plan9 or wrote user level software for sys= tems to simulate plan9. If forking or changing the way to use plan9 is a cr= ime and the evidence to justify to expel people from the plan9 or 9fans com= munity who is still part of this community you envisioned (Don).=C2=A0 Afte= r reading your messages you have also committed this crime by porting plan9= to systems not originally part of the 4e distro. You had to change enhance= the code to make it run on new hardware not sharing it doesn't change the = fact you made those changes so war you to expel from this message board ? T= he original authors changed code for their for inferno. They changed code b= etween releases (9P --> 9P2000, ...), they changed even the gui between rel= eases 8 1/2 =3D=3D> rio aso. Changing code is no crime as forking isn't tha= ts the way software evolves. If you are a programmer and need changes you c= ode the changes if you can't integrate those changes to the sources than yo= u just created a fork. And as we all know plan9 4e was the last official re= lease of plan9 it needed patches it needed changes to run on new hardware s= o everyone who changed the original sources created forks for themselves. S= ome people saw a necessity to cooperate and started forks like 9front to pr= ofit from a shared code base. Others started looking for patches which coul= d be back ported to the plan9 4e release like 9legacy team (David - great j= ob by the way). But this doesn't change the fact 9legacy is nothing else th= an a fork. Calling 9legacy 'mainline' and discriminate 9front and other for= ks is laughable cause 9legacy uses code changes from almost every shared fo= rk of plan9 of importance. You can't be serious while calling code from 9front messy and talk about no= t trusting them while you call 9legacy/9pio 'mainline'. If the code is mess= y and not trustworthy you shouldn't use 9legacy too cause a large amount of= changes in this set of patches is based on code from 9front or other forks= .=20 With best regards ------------------------------------------ 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T42f11e0265bcfa18-Maa610= 7f74c1a7fea86f95542 Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription --17062838641.23C1BEB3.82196 Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2024 10:44:24 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
First of all, I have my own fork of plan9 whic= h was/is used by a few hundred users.

My f= ork is based on 9legacy. And I'm really surprised to regularly see this= discussion about a 'mainline' and the argumentation against 9front= . Fact is : 9legacy provides patches and enhancements from 9front. I don= 9;t have a problem with those back ported code which is distributed under a= n MIT license.

I don't use 9front or = 9legacy directly but for some time now my own forked systems with different= gui (desktop), editors, fontsystem, filesystem and a different coding styl= e cause I prefer object oriented programming with C made possible with a pr= eprocessor which translates to C.

I'm = not part of 9front neither of 9legacy. I'm following the 9front mailing= lists for bug reports or announcements of code interesting enough to port = to my system. Some improvements in 9front especially regarding drivers and = support for hardware are worth the effort to run a diff and port changes to= my system. 9front has a large user group and its natural that needs of suc= h a large community improve hardware support. I use code imported by 9legac= y for booting which simplified my fork and made booting on modern hardware = possible.

If 9legacy is the so called '= ;mainline' then 9legacy uses also back ported code from 9front. 9legacy= is not 4e and it contains code enhancements from other forks of plan9 too.=

4e is the last official release, 9legacy = provides patches and enhancements back ported from forks of plan9. In my op= inion 9fans is a meeting point not only for users of plan9 4e but also ever= yone who uses a fork of plan9. All forks share some code with varying amoun= ts.

I have my own fork and you wouldn'= ;t be able to tell by looking at the desktop or the boot screen that my for= k is based on plan9, 9legacy, 9front as a user if this information wasn'= ;t placed due to the MIT license. My system is based on ideas code from pla= n9, 9legacy, 9fork and indirectly on code from other forks which were back = ported by 9legacy this makes me part of the 9fans community like all those = who are using plan9 directly or in the form of a port.
The owner of plan9 4e - Nokia - relicensed plan9 under an MIT= license. Using, forking, changing, distributing plan9 following this new l= icense is something everyone can decide by him-/herself. No one needs any k= ind of approval from anybody as long as you fulfill the license clauses.

My fork is based on plan9 - dot - 9front is= based on plan9 - dot - 9legacy is based on 9legacy - dot and this is true = for all forks which are related with plan9. By the way the original coders = of plan9 also created a fork inferno. All forks are related with plan9. 9fa= ns is a board where those interested in plan9 and its forks can meet an dis= cuss. Whenever I need some information about problems existing in plan9 cod= e I search for earlier posts on this mailing list, when I don't find re= levant information I search the mailing list of 9front and others to find h= ints for solving the problem.

I don't= like this discussion about 'mainline' and forks on this list. plan= 9 is MIT licensed and can be used in its original form (if possible on mode= rn hardware) or as a fork. Everyone can fork it and use it as he or she see= s fit.

I don't use 9front directly an= d sometimes discussions with people from 9front get irritating but this doe= sn't change the fact that they have a fork which is based on plan9 with= a very good code quality that resembles the original form to an extent tha= t it can be back ported with very small effort. Okay sometimes the effort g= ets bigger but thats the price you have to pay if you create your own fork = and try to use code from another fork.

I d= on't know any members of 9front by person never met any of them. But I = don't like the way some on this board are discriminating people who hav= e forked from plan9 or use forked versions. Who do you think you are ?

Even the authors of plan9 forked plan9 or wrot= e user level software for systems to simulate plan9. If forking or changing= the way to use plan9 is a crime and the evidence to justify to expel peopl= e from the plan9 or 9fans community who is still part of this community you= envisioned (Don).  After reading your messages you have also committe= d this crime by porting plan9 to systems not originally part of the 4e dist= ro. You had to change enhance the code to make it run on new hardware not s= haring it doesn't change the fact you made those changes so war you to = expel from this message board ? The original authors changed code for their= for inferno. They changed code between releases (9P --> 9P2000, ...), t= hey changed even the gui between releases 8 1/2 =3D=3D> rio aso. Changin= g code is no crime as forking isn't thats the way software evolves. If = you are a programmer and need changes you code the changes if you can't= integrate those changes to the sources than you just created a fork. And a= s we all know plan9 4e was the last official release of plan9 it needed pat= ches it needed changes to run on new hardware so everyone who changed the o= riginal sources created forks for themselves. Some people saw a necessity t= o cooperate and started forks like 9front to profit from a shared code base= . Others started looking for patches which could be back ported to the plan= 9 4e release like 9legacy team (David - great job by the way). But this doe= sn't change the fact 9legacy is nothing else than a fork. Calling 9lega= cy 'mainline' and discriminate 9front and other forks is laughable = cause 9legacy uses code changes from almost every shared fork of plan9 of i= mportance.

You can't be serious while = calling code from 9front messy and talk about not trusting them while you c= all 9legacy/9pio 'mainline'. If the code is messy and not trustwort= hy you shouldn't use 9legacy too cause a large amount of changes in thi= s set of patches is based on code from 9front or other forks.
<= div>
With best regards
= --17062838641.23C1BEB3.82196--