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* Re: [9fans] Boot CD chokes
@ 2021-12-28 15:32 Duke Normandin
  2021-12-28 15:50 ` hiro
  2021-12-28 15:54 ` Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 71+ messages in thread
From: Duke Normandin @ 2021-12-28 15:32 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans list

@hiro, @Sigrid, @vic

Thanks everybody for the tips! Much obliged.
DLed Sigrid's original suggestion. Now - Plan9 boots up to here:

[boot-msg]
/dev/sdC0: ST3802110A
/dev/sdC0/data
/dev/sdC1: Maxtor 6Y080L0
/dev/sdC1/data
/dev/sdC1/linux
/dev/sdC1/linux1
/dev/sdD0: YAMAHA CRW2200E
/dev/sdD0/data
/dev/sdD1: COMPAQ DVD-ROM CD-2500
bootargs is (tcp, tls, il, local!device)[local!/dev/sdD0/data]

user[glenda]: cr
atapktio: disabling dma
/386/init: '/386/init' does not exist
[/boot-msg]

Not bad!! Got to keep going though! LOL What now? Reading the Plan9
install docs. Is 9front install docs different? TIA

BTW - Installing Plan9 is a great project for me right now. -37C
here in western Canada. :O
--
Duke
** Text only please. Bottom post is best for me **

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* Re: [9fans] Boot CD chokes
  2021-12-28 15:32 [9fans] Boot CD chokes Duke Normandin
@ 2021-12-28 15:50 ` hiro
  2021-12-28 15:57   ` Duke Normandin
  2021-12-28 15:54 ` Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 71+ messages in thread
From: hiro @ 2021-12-28 15:50 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

not sure what's wrong with that cd drive, but as you have the kernel
loaded, you could also put the iso on a flash drive or so and use that
for root.

On 12/28/21, Duke Normandin <dukeofpurl@gmx.com> wrote:
> @hiro, @Sigrid, @vic
> 
> Thanks everybody for the tips! Much obliged.
> DLed Sigrid's original suggestion. Now - Plan9 boots up to here:
> 
> [boot-msg]
> /dev/sdC0: ST3802110A
> /dev/sdC0/data
> /dev/sdC1: Maxtor 6Y080L0
> /dev/sdC1/data
> /dev/sdC1/linux
> /dev/sdC1/linux1
> /dev/sdD0: YAMAHA CRW2200E
> /dev/sdD0/data
> /dev/sdD1: COMPAQ DVD-ROM CD-2500
> bootargs is (tcp, tls, il, local!device)[local!/dev/sdD0/data]
> 
> user[glenda]: cr
> atapktio: disabling dma
> /386/init: '/386/init' does not exist
> [/boot-msg]
> 
> Not bad!! Got to keep going though! LOL What now? Reading the Plan9
> install docs. Is 9front install docs different? TIA
> 
> BTW - Installing Plan9 is a great project for me right now. -37C
> here in western Canada. :O
> --
> Duke
> ** Text only please. Bottom post is best for me **

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* Re: [9fans] Boot CD chokes
  2021-12-28 15:32 [9fans] Boot CD chokes Duke Normandin
  2021-12-28 15:50 ` hiro
@ 2021-12-28 15:54 ` Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir
  2021-12-28 16:08   ` Duke Normandin
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 71+ messages in thread
From: Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir @ 2021-12-28 15:54 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

> Not bad!! Got to keep going though! LOL What now? Reading the Plan9
> install docs. Is 9front install docs different? TIA

Which one of the cd/dvd has 9front in? Can you type "!rc" (it will
drop you into a shell) and do "ls /dev/sd*/" there? See if there are
any plan 9 partitions. Shell can be exited with ctrl+d after. You're
supposed to provide the kernel with a correct filesystem path to boot
from, that's the idea. Maybe it picked the wrong one by itself.
9front install docs are here: http://fqa.9front.org/fqa4.html

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* Re: [9fans] Boot CD chokes
  2021-12-28 15:50 ` hiro
@ 2021-12-28 15:57   ` Duke Normandin
  2021-12-28 16:01     ` Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 71+ messages in thread
From: Duke Normandin @ 2021-12-28 15:57 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

On Tue, 28 Dec 2021 16:50:28 +0100
hiro <23hiro@gmail.com> wrote:

> not sure what's wrong with that cd drive, but as you have the
> kernel loaded, you could also put the iso on a flash drive or so
> and use that for root.

Isn't "/386/init does not exist" a clue?

Why does it not exist I'm wondering?
--
Duke
** Text only please. Bottom post is best for me **

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* Re: [9fans] Boot CD chokes
  2021-12-28 15:57   ` Duke Normandin
@ 2021-12-28 16:01     ` Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir
  2021-12-28 16:09       ` Duke Normandin
  2021-12-28 16:28       ` Duke Normandin
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 71+ messages in thread
From: Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir @ 2021-12-28 16:01 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 252 bytes --]

Which ISO did you use?

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[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 706 bytes --]

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* Re: [9fans] Boot CD chokes
  2021-12-28 15:54 ` Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir
@ 2021-12-28 16:08   ` Duke Normandin
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 71+ messages in thread
From: Duke Normandin @ 2021-12-28 16:08 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

On Tue, 28 Dec 2021 16:54:07 +0100
Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir <ftrvxmtrx@gmail.com> wrote:

> > Not bad!! Got to keep going though! LOL What now? Reading the
> > Plan9 install docs. Is 9front install docs different? TIA
> 
> Which one of the cd/dvd has 9front in? 

It's in the Yamaha CD drive.

> Can you type "!rc" (it will
> drop you into a shell) and do "ls /dev/sd*/" there? See if there
> are any plan 9 partitions. 

I got:

/dev/sdC0/ctl
/dev/sdC0/data
/dev/sdC0/raw
/dev/sdC1/ctl
/dev/sdC1/data
/dev/sdC1/linux
/dev/sdC1/linux1
/dev/sdC1/raw
/dev/sdD0/ctl
/dev/sdD0/data
/dev/sdD0/raw
/dev/sdD1/ctl
/dev/sdD1/raw


> Shell can be exited with ctrl+d after.

Right on!

> You're supposed to provide the kernel with a correct filesystem
> path to boot from, that's the idea. Maybe it picked the wrong one
> by itself. 

I was hoping/thinking that the filesystem _was_ on my CD. I want to
install Plan9 onto one of my HDDs.

> 9front install docs are here:
> http://fqa.9front.org/fqa4.html

Ok thx ...
-- 
Duke
** Text only please. Bottom post is best for me **

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* Re: [9fans] Boot CD chokes
  2021-12-28 16:01     ` Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir
@ 2021-12-28 16:09       ` Duke Normandin
  2021-12-28 16:24         ` Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir
  2021-12-28 16:28       ` Duke Normandin
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 71+ messages in thread
From: Duke Normandin @ 2021-12-28 16:09 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

On Tue, 28 Dec 2021 17:01:56 +0100
Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir <ftrvxmtrx@gmail.com> wrote:

> Which ISO did you use?

9front-8593.acc504c319a4b4188479cfa602e40cb6851c0528.386.iso
-- 
Duke
** Text only please. Bottom post is best for me **

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* Re: [9fans] Boot CD chokes
  2021-12-28 16:09       ` Duke Normandin
@ 2021-12-28 16:24         ` Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 71+ messages in thread
From: Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir @ 2021-12-28 16:24 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

My concern is that it does not show /dev/sdD0/data as 9660 when
listing possible choices to boot from, unless ofc you didn't
copy-paste(?) the full output precisely. Could be that the ISO wasn't
burned correctly? I'm not exactly sure. The /386/init is definitely
there on the ISO which boots fine for me here.

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* Re: [9fans] Boot CD chokes
  2021-12-28 16:01     ` Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir
  2021-12-28 16:09       ` Duke Normandin
@ 2021-12-28 16:28       ` Duke Normandin
  2021-12-28 16:31         ` Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 71+ messages in thread
From: Duke Normandin @ 2021-12-28 16:28 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

On Tue, 28 Dec 2021 17:01:56 +0100
Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir <ftrvxmtrx@gmail.com> wrote:

> Which ISO did you use?

Hold the phone! Stop the presses!

I'm in! Joy!!

Accepted the defaults once again after doing a Ctrl-D and BOOM!
I've got a term% window
I've got a "cirno" window.

;-D
-- 
Duke
** Text only please. Bottom post is best for me **

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* Re: [9fans] Boot CD chokes
  2021-12-28 16:28       ` Duke Normandin
@ 2021-12-28 16:31         ` Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir
  2021-12-28 16:41           ` Duke Normandin
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 71+ messages in thread
From: Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir @ 2021-12-28 16:31 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

Awesome. Have fun!

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* Re: [9fans] Boot CD chokes
  2021-12-28 16:31         ` Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir
@ 2021-12-28 16:41           ` Duke Normandin
  2021-12-28 16:48             ` Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir
  2021-12-28 16:50             ` ori
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 71+ messages in thread
From: Duke Normandin @ 2021-12-28 16:41 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

On Tue, 28 Dec 2021 17:31:26 +0100
Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir <ftrvxmtrx@gmail.com> wrote:

> Awesome. Have fun!

I sure will! Thx a bunch. Before you move on to better things, can
you explain how I get Plan9 onto /dev/sdC0 please.

I've got antiX Linux on /dev/sdC1 which I want to keep. Got GRUB2
bootmanager installed.

-- 
Duke
** Text only please. Bottom post is best for me **

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* Re: [9fans] Boot CD chokes
  2021-12-28 16:41           ` Duke Normandin
@ 2021-12-28 16:48             ` Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir
  2021-12-28 16:55               ` Duke Normandin
  2021-12-28 16:50             ` ori
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 71+ messages in thread
From: Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir @ 2021-12-28 16:48 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

Just follow the usual installation, choose sdC0 as the media. 9front
has its own bootloader which installs in mbr if you chose so. Grub can
"chainload" (that's the word to search on the internet or docs for)
that too in case you want to continue booting through grub.

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* Re: [9fans] Boot CD chokes
  2021-12-28 16:41           ` Duke Normandin
  2021-12-28 16:48             ` Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir
@ 2021-12-28 16:50             ` ori
  2021-12-28 16:55               ` hiro
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 71+ messages in thread
From: ori @ 2021-12-28 16:50 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

Quoth Duke Normandin <dukeofpurl@gmx.com>:
> On Tue, 28 Dec 2021 17:31:26 +0100 
> Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir <ftrvxmtrx@gmail.com> wrote: 
>  
> > Awesome. Have fun! 
>  
> I sure will! Thx a bunch. Before you move on to better things, can 
> you explain how I get Plan9 onto /dev/sdC0 please. 

http://fqa.9front.org/fqa4.html#4.3.5 



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* Re: [9fans] Boot CD chokes
  2021-12-28 16:50             ` ori
@ 2021-12-28 16:55               ` hiro
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 71+ messages in thread
From: hiro @ 2021-12-28 16:55 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

it's weird, it should have shown
/dev/sdD0/data 9660



On 12/28/21, ori@eigenstate.org <ori@eigenstate.org> wrote:
> Quoth Duke Normandin <dukeofpurl@gmx.com>:
>> On Tue, 28 Dec 2021 17:31:26 +0100
>> Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir <ftrvxmtrx@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > Awesome. Have fun!
>>
>> I sure will! Thx a bunch. Before you move on to better things, can
>> you explain how I get Plan9 onto /dev/sdC0 please.
> 
> http://fqa.9front.org/fqa4.html#4.3.5
> 

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* Re: [9fans] Boot CD chokes
  2021-12-28 16:48             ` Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir
@ 2021-12-28 16:55               ` Duke Normandin
  2021-12-28 16:58                 ` Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir
  2021-12-28 16:59                 ` hiro
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 71+ messages in thread
From: Duke Normandin @ 2021-12-28 16:55 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

On Tue, 28 Dec 2021 17:48:11 +0100
Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir <ftrvxmtrx@gmail.com> wrote:

> Just follow the usual installation, choose sdC0 as the media.
> 9front has its own bootloader which installs in mbr if you chose
> so. Grub can "chainload" (that's the word to search on the
> internet or docs for) that too in case you want to continue
> booting through grub.

Got it!

BTW - rebooted and logged in as adm. Got an error msg saying that
it couldn't find something or other ../adm.

How do I log out? ^D like Linux/BSD?

-- 
Duke
** Text only please. Bottom post is best for me **

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* Re: [9fans] Boot CD chokes
  2021-12-28 16:55               ` Duke Normandin
@ 2021-12-28 16:58                 ` Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir
  2021-12-28 16:59                 ` hiro
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 71+ messages in thread
From: Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir @ 2021-12-28 16:58 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

It's glenda, not adm. adm is a group. Please, read the documentation,
there is plenty.

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* Re: [9fans] Boot CD chokes
  2021-12-28 16:55               ` Duke Normandin
  2021-12-28 16:58                 ` Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir
@ 2021-12-28 16:59                 ` hiro
  2021-12-28 17:06                   ` Duke Normandin
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 71+ messages in thread
From: hiro @ 2021-12-28 16:59 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

adm? /adm is a folder, i don't see any reference where it's being used
as hostowner...
maybe you wanted to use "glenda" which is default hostowner.

On 12/28/21, Duke Normandin <dukeofpurl@gmx.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 28 Dec 2021 17:48:11 +0100
> Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir <ftrvxmtrx@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Just follow the usual installation, choose sdC0 as the media.
>> 9front has its own bootloader which installs in mbr if you chose
>> so. Grub can "chainload" (that's the word to search on the
>> internet or docs for) that too in case you want to continue
>> booting through grub.
> 
> Got it!
> 
> BTW - rebooted and logged in as adm. Got an error msg saying that
> it couldn't find something or other ../adm.
> 
> How do I log out? ^D like Linux/BSD?
> 
> --
> Duke
> ** Text only please. Bottom post is best for me **

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* Re: [9fans] Boot CD chokes
  2021-12-28 16:59                 ` hiro
@ 2021-12-28 17:06                   ` Duke Normandin
  2021-12-28 17:20                     ` hiro
  2021-12-28 17:23                     ` ori
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 71+ messages in thread
From: Duke Normandin @ 2021-12-28 17:06 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

On Tue, 28 Dec 2021 17:59:26 +0100
hiro <23hiro@gmail.com> wrote:

> adm? /adm is a folder, i don't see any reference where it's being
> used as hostowner...
> maybe you wanted to use "glenda" which is default hostowner.

The docs I'm reading say that to setup the correct timezone:
log in as user:adm
then
cp /adm/timezone/CET to /adm/timezone/local

etc etc

Am RTFM!!! LOL
--
Duke
** Text only please. Bottom post is best for me **

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* Re: [9fans] Boot CD chokes
  2021-12-28 17:06                   ` Duke Normandin
@ 2021-12-28 17:20                     ` hiro
  2021-12-28 17:28                       ` Eli Cohen
  2021-12-28 17:23                     ` ori
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 71+ messages in thread
From: hiro @ 2021-12-28 17:20 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

so check if your user glenda is part of the group that has write
permissions to /adm/timezone/local

On 12/28/21, Duke Normandin <dukeofpurl@gmx.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 28 Dec 2021 17:59:26 +0100
> hiro <23hiro@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> adm? /adm is a folder, i don't see any reference where it's being
>> used as hostowner...
>> maybe you wanted to use "glenda" which is default hostowner.
> 
> The docs I'm reading say that to setup the correct timezone:
> log in as user:adm
> then
> cp /adm/timezone/CET to /adm/timezone/local
> 
> etc etc
> 
> Am RTFM!!! LOL
> --
> Duke
> ** Text only please. Bottom post is best for me **

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* Re: [9fans] Boot CD chokes
  2021-12-28 17:06                   ` Duke Normandin
  2021-12-28 17:20                     ` hiro
@ 2021-12-28 17:23                     ` ori
  2021-12-28 17:29                       ` Duke Normandin
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 71+ messages in thread
From: ori @ 2021-12-28 17:23 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

Quoth Duke Normandin <dukeofpurl@gmx.com>:
> log in as user:adm

expanding that a bit: log in as a
user in the 'adm' group.


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* Re: [9fans] Boot CD chokes
  2021-12-28 17:20                     ` hiro
@ 2021-12-28 17:28                       ` Eli Cohen
  2021-12-28 17:35                         ` Duke Normandin
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 71+ messages in thread
From: Eli Cohen @ 2021-12-28 17:28 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

if you're not accustomed to plan 9 I want to be the first to reiterate
to be very careful with the mount command. on plan 9 mount mounts 9p
servers, not disks. mounting a disk file will write 9p to the file
(the disk)

that's a common mistake that people have made tools to recover from,
but it can happen often as you are getting used to the new system

On Tue, Dec 28, 2021 at 9:22 AM hiro <23hiro@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> so check if your user glenda is part of the group that has write
> permissions to /adm/timezone/local
>
> On 12/28/21, Duke Normandin <dukeofpurl@gmx.com> wrote:
> > On Tue, 28 Dec 2021 17:59:26 +0100
> > hiro <23hiro@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> adm? /adm is a folder, i don't see any reference where it's being
> >> used as hostowner...
> >> maybe you wanted to use "glenda" which is default hostowner.
> >
> > The docs I'm reading say that to setup the correct timezone:
> > log in as user:adm
> > then
> > cp /adm/timezone/CET to /adm/timezone/local
> >
> > etc etc
> >
> > Am RTFM!!! LOL
> > --
> > Duke
> > ** Text only please. Bottom post is best for me **

------------------------------------------
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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 71+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] Boot CD chokes
  2021-12-28 17:23                     ` ori
@ 2021-12-28 17:29                       ` Duke Normandin
  2021-12-28 22:42                         ` Humm
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 71+ messages in thread
From: Duke Normandin @ 2021-12-28 17:29 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

On Tue, 28 Dec 2021 12:23:49 -0500
ori@eigenstate.org wrote:

> Quoth Duke Normandin <dukeofpurl@gmx.com>:
> > log in as user:adm
>
> expanding that a bit: log in as a
> user in the 'adm' group.

OK - I'm going to take a time-out and go read about how to use this
thing! I see that I'm trying to make too many analogies with it and
*nix. Not working for me.

I'm new to Plan9. I don't know fuck all! So I gotta start at the
beginning - NOT at sysadmin level. Off to Google ...
--
Duke
** Text only please. Bottom post is best for me **

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* Re: [9fans] Boot CD chokes
  2021-12-28 17:28                       ` Eli Cohen
@ 2021-12-28 17:35                         ` Duke Normandin
  2021-12-28 17:56                           ` Frank D. Engel, Jr.
  2021-12-28 23:16                           ` Bakul Shah
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 71+ messages in thread
From: Duke Normandin @ 2021-12-28 17:35 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

On Tue, 28 Dec 2021 09:28:52 -0800
Eli Cohen <echoline@gmail.com> wrote:

> if you're not accustomed to plan 9

Worst than that! I don't know squat about it. Just manage to
install it 10 minutes ago. I know Unix though and that's where I'm
getting hung up.

--
Duke
** Text only please. Bottom post is best for me **

------------------------------------------
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* Re: [9fans] Boot CD chokes
  2021-12-28 17:35                         ` Duke Normandin
@ 2021-12-28 17:56                           ` Frank D. Engel, Jr.
  2021-12-28 18:03                             ` Duke Normandin
  2021-12-28 23:16                           ` Bakul Shah
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 71+ messages in thread
From: Frank D. Engel, Jr. @ 2021-12-28 17:56 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

Partially to answer an earlier question and partially to emphasize just 
how different Plan 9 is: you "log out" by rebooting.


On 12/28/21 12:35 PM, Duke Normandin wrote:
> On Tue, 28 Dec 2021 09:28:52 -0800
> Eli Cohen <echoline@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> if you're not accustomed to plan 9
> Worst than that! I don't know squat about it. Just manage to
> install it 10 minutes ago. I know Unix though and that's where I'm
> getting hung up.
> 
> --
> Duke
> ** Text only please. Bottom post is best for me **

------------------------------------------
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* Re: [9fans] Boot CD chokes
  2021-12-28 17:56                           ` Frank D. Engel, Jr.
@ 2021-12-28 18:03                             ` Duke Normandin
  2021-12-28 18:11                               ` Eli Cohen
                                                 ` (3 more replies)
  0 siblings, 4 replies; 71+ messages in thread
From: Duke Normandin @ 2021-12-28 18:03 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

On Tue, 28 Dec 2021 12:56:19 -0500
"Frank D. Engel, Jr." <fde101@fjrhome.net> wrote:

> Partially to answer an earlier question and partially to
> emphasize just how different Plan 9 is: you "log out" by
> rebooting.

You're kidding right? So it's a single-user/multi-tasking OS?

--
Duke
** Text only please. Bottom post is best for me **

------------------------------------------
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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 71+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] Boot CD chokes
  2021-12-28 18:03                             ` Duke Normandin
@ 2021-12-28 18:11                               ` Eli Cohen
  2021-12-28 18:22                                 ` Duke Normandin
  2021-12-28 18:16                               ` Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir
                                                 ` (2 subsequent siblings)
  3 siblings, 1 reply; 71+ messages in thread
From: Eli Cohen @ 2021-12-28 18:11 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

yes, but it also has very good networking capabilities

On Tue, Dec 28, 2021 at 10:05 AM Duke Normandin <dukeofpurl@gmx.com> wrote:
>
> On Tue, 28 Dec 2021 12:56:19 -0500
> "Frank D. Engel, Jr." <fde101@fjrhome.net> wrote:
>
> > Partially to answer an earlier question and partially to
> > emphasize just how different Plan 9 is: you "log out" by
> > rebooting.
> 
> You're kidding right? So it's a single-user/multi-tasking OS?
> 
> --
> Duke
> ** Text only please. Bottom post is best for me **

------------------------------------------
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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 71+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] Boot CD chokes
  2021-12-28 18:03                             ` Duke Normandin
  2021-12-28 18:11                               ` Eli Cohen
@ 2021-12-28 18:16                               ` Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir
  2021-12-28 18:35                               ` vic.thacker
  2021-12-28 18:44                               ` ori
  3 siblings, 0 replies; 71+ messages in thread
From: Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir @ 2021-12-28 18:16 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

> So it's a single-user/multi-tasking OS?

No.

------------------------------------------
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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 71+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] Boot CD chokes
  2021-12-28 18:11                               ` Eli Cohen
@ 2021-12-28 18:22                                 ` Duke Normandin
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 71+ messages in thread
From: Duke Normandin @ 2021-12-28 18:22 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

On Tue, 28 Dec 2021 10:11:38 -0800
Eli Cohen <echoline@gmail.com> wrote:

> yes, but it also has very good networking capabilities

networking is good! +1
--
Duke
** Text only please. Bottom post is best for me **

------------------------------------------
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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 71+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] Boot CD chokes
  2021-12-28 18:03                             ` Duke Normandin
  2021-12-28 18:11                               ` Eli Cohen
  2021-12-28 18:16                               ` Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir
@ 2021-12-28 18:35                               ` vic.thacker
  2021-12-28 18:45                                 ` Duke Normandin
  2021-12-28 18:44                               ` ori
  3 siblings, 1 reply; 71+ messages in thread
From: vic.thacker @ 2021-12-28 18:35 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: leimy2k via 9fans

On Wed, Dec 29, 2021, at 03:03, Duke Normandin wrote:
> On Tue, 28 Dec 2021 12:56:19 -0500
> "Frank D. Engel, Jr." <fde101@fjrhome.net> wrote:
>
>> Partially to answer an earlier question and partially to
>> emphasize just how different Plan 9 is: you "log out" by
>> rebooting.
> 
> You're kidding right? So it's a single-user/multi-tasking OS?
> 
> --
> Duke
> ** Text only please. Bottom post is best for me **

9front and Plan 9 are multi-user/multi-tasking distributed operating environments. How 9front and Plan 9 are used today differs greatly than how it was originally meant to be deployed. An end user was meant to login via a Plan 9 terminal to access a distrubuted operating environment. Nowadays, folks typically install Plan 9 or 9front on a  single laptop and use it as a terminal and server. Since there is no distributed environment, it appears to be single-user/multi-tasking. You were meant to shutdown the terminal session, not the server. 

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* Re: [9fans] Boot CD chokes
  2021-12-28 18:03                             ` Duke Normandin
                                                 ` (2 preceding siblings ...)
  2021-12-28 18:35                               ` vic.thacker
@ 2021-12-28 18:44                               ` ori
  3 siblings, 0 replies; 71+ messages in thread
From: ori @ 2021-12-28 18:44 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

Quoth Duke Normandin <dukeofpurl@gmx.com>:
> 
> You're kidding right? So it's a single-user/multi-tasking OS?

no, but it's hard for two people to use one
mouse. therefore, when you sit in front of
one machine, you own it.

multiple users come in when you import
resources from the network.


------------------------------------------
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* Re: [9fans] Boot CD chokes
  2021-12-28 18:35                               ` vic.thacker
@ 2021-12-28 18:45                                 ` Duke Normandin
  2021-12-28 19:01                                   ` hiro
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 71+ messages in thread
From: Duke Normandin @ 2021-12-28 18:45 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

On Wed, 29 Dec 2021 03:35:29 +0900
vic.thacker@fastmail.fm wrote:

[snip]

> 9front and Plan 9 are multi-user/multi-tasking distributed
> operating environments. How 9front and Plan 9 are used today
> differs greatly than how it was originally meant to be deployed.
> An end user was meant to login via a Plan 9 terminal to access a
> distrubuted operating environment. Nowadays, folks typically
> install Plan 9 or 9front on a  single laptop and use it as a
> terminal and server. Since there is no distributed environment,
> it appears to be single-user/multi-tasking. You were meant to
> shutdown the terminal session, not the server.

Got it!

Is there a not-too-pedantic user manual kicking about? I
mean this like: "Please tell me what time it is; NOT how to make a
watch". :) For the time being anyway. I'm a hacker back as far as
1981. Now I often need a manual. :(
--
Duke
** Text only please. Bottom post is best for me **

------------------------------------------
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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 71+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] Boot CD chokes
  2021-12-28 18:45                                 ` Duke Normandin
@ 2021-12-28 19:01                                   ` hiro
  2021-12-28 19:21                                     ` Duke Normandin
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 71+ messages in thread
From: hiro @ 2021-12-28 19:01 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

manuals are always pedantic.

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 71+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] Boot CD chokes
  2021-12-28 19:01                                   ` hiro
@ 2021-12-28 19:21                                     ` Duke Normandin
  2021-12-28 20:12                                       ` hiro
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 71+ messages in thread
From: Duke Normandin @ 2021-12-28 19:21 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

On Tue, 28 Dec 2021 20:01:17 +0100
hiro <23hiro@gmail.com> wrote:

> manuals are always pedantic.

maybe you haven't lived long enough to have stumbled on the good
ones. :)
--
Duke
** Text only please. Bottom post is best for me **

------------------------------------------
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* Re: [9fans] Boot CD chokes
  2021-12-28 19:21                                     ` Duke Normandin
@ 2021-12-28 20:12                                       ` hiro
  2021-12-28 20:26                                         ` Duke Normandin
  2021-12-28 20:32                                         ` Duke Normandin
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 71+ messages in thread
From: hiro @ 2021-12-28 20:12 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

my point was that if they weren't pedantic they wouldn't be any good

On 12/28/21, Duke Normandin <dukeofpurl@gmx.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 28 Dec 2021 20:01:17 +0100
> hiro <23hiro@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> manuals are always pedantic.
> 
> maybe you haven't lived long enough to have stumbled on the good
> ones. :)
> --
> Duke
> ** Text only please. Bottom post is best for me **

------------------------------------------
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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 71+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] Boot CD chokes
  2021-12-28 20:12                                       ` hiro
@ 2021-12-28 20:26                                         ` Duke Normandin
  2021-12-28 20:33                                           ` hiro
  2021-12-28 20:32                                         ` Duke Normandin
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 71+ messages in thread
From: Duke Normandin @ 2021-12-28 20:26 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

On Tue, 28 Dec 2021 21:12:37 +0100
hiro <23hiro@gmail.com> wrote:

> my point was that if they weren't pedantic they wouldn't be any
> good

There's a time for pedantic and there a time for not so much.
There's way too much "Bullshit baffles brains" going on - on the
web - IMHO.

At the onset, show them how to tell time - NOT how to make a watch!

--
Duke
** Text only please. Bottom post is best for me **

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* Re: [9fans] Boot CD chokes
  2021-12-28 20:12                                       ` hiro
  2021-12-28 20:26                                         ` Duke Normandin
@ 2021-12-28 20:32                                         ` Duke Normandin
  2021-12-28 20:35                                           ` hiro
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 71+ messages in thread
From: Duke Normandin @ 2021-12-28 20:32 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

On Tue, 28 Dec 2021 21:12:37 +0100
hiro <23hiro@gmail.com> wrote:

> my point was that if they weren't pedantic they wouldn't be any
> good

Here's MY point:

https://youtu.be/SoGLU1l7LwY

Short and sweet and to the point. Gimme more ... :)
--
Duke
** Text only please. Bottom post is best for me **

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* Re: [9fans] Boot CD chokes
  2021-12-28 20:26                                         ` Duke Normandin
@ 2021-12-28 20:33                                           ` hiro
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 71+ messages in thread
From: hiro @ 2021-12-28 20:33 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

sure, i don't want every website to read like a manual page.
but i want every manual page to be pedantic in the sense that it
should be concise and informative.

your example fits this definition.

On 12/28/21, Duke Normandin <dukeofpurl@gmx.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 28 Dec 2021 21:12:37 +0100
> hiro <23hiro@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> my point was that if they weren't pedantic they wouldn't be any
>> good
> 
> There's a time for pedantic and there a time for not so much.
> There's way too much "Bullshit baffles brains" going on - on the
> web - IMHO.
> 
> At the onset, show them how to tell time - NOT how to make a watch!
> 
> --
> Duke
> ** Text only please. Bottom post is best for me **

------------------------------------------
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* Re: [9fans] Boot CD chokes
  2021-12-28 20:32                                         ` Duke Normandin
@ 2021-12-28 20:35                                           ` hiro
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 71+ messages in thread
From: hiro @ 2021-12-28 20:35 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

you mean you want less concise text and more low-quality multimedia cosplay?

On 12/28/21, Duke Normandin <dukeofpurl@gmx.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 28 Dec 2021 21:12:37 +0100
> hiro <23hiro@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> my point was that if they weren't pedantic they wouldn't be any
>> good
> 
> Here's MY point:
> 
> https://youtu.be/SoGLU1l7LwY
> 
> Short and sweet and to the point. Gimme more ... :)
> --
> Duke
> ** Text only please. Bottom post is best for me **

------------------------------------------
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* Re: [9fans] Boot CD chokes
  2021-12-28 17:29                       ` Duke Normandin
@ 2021-12-28 22:42                         ` Humm
  2021-12-28 23:29                           ` Stanley Lieber
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 71+ messages in thread
From: Humm @ 2021-12-28 22:42 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

Quoth Duke Normandin:
>I'm new to Plan9. I don't know fuck all! So I gotta start at the
>beginning - NOT at sysadmin level. Off to Google ...

The beginning is the name.  The thing you use is “9front”.  The 
abandoned thing is “Plan 9”.  Note the blank.

-- 
Humm

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* Re: [9fans] Boot CD chokes
  2021-12-28 17:35                         ` Duke Normandin
  2021-12-28 17:56                           ` Frank D. Engel, Jr.
@ 2021-12-28 23:16                           ` Bakul Shah
  2021-12-28 23:25                             ` Duke Normandin
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 71+ messages in thread
From: Bakul Shah @ 2021-12-28 23:16 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

On Dec 28, 2021, at 9:35 AM, Duke Normandin <dukeofpurl@gmx.com> wrote:
> 
> On Tue, 28 Dec 2021 09:28:52 -0800
> Eli Cohen <echoline@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> if you're not accustomed to plan 9
> 
> Worst than that! I don't know squat about it. Just manage to
> install it 10 minutes ago. I know Unix though and that's where I'm
> getting hung up.

I think there is a webpage somewhere describing the differences
between Unix and Plan9.

You may find https://pspodcasting.net/dan/blog/2019/plan9_desktop.html
useful. The FQA on 9front site is pretty good if you have specific
questions. plan9 man pages are agood but they tend to be concise.
You have to read carefully.

One suggestion: as you read a manpage, try out the command and its 
options and try to figure out what happens. Check the man page in
the "See Also" section. If you screw something up, in the worst,
but not very likely, case you may have to reinstall (and that is
not a big deal in plan9).

One more suggestion: *write* down your experience as you encounter
issues and solve them. Write down things that may have helped you.
And publish it or at least stick it on github to help the next person!


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* Re: [9fans] Boot CD chokes
  2021-12-28 23:16                           ` Bakul Shah
@ 2021-12-28 23:25                             ` Duke Normandin
  2021-12-29  0:20                               ` Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 71+ messages in thread
From: Duke Normandin @ 2021-12-28 23:25 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

On Tue, 28 Dec 2021 15:16:06 -0800
Bakul Shah <bakul@iitbombay.org> wrote:


> You may find
> https://pspodcasting.net/dan/blog/2019/plan9_desktop.html useful.

I do - thanks!
--
Duke
** Text only please. Bottom post is best for me **

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* Re: [9fans] Boot CD chokes
  2021-12-28 22:42                         ` Humm
@ 2021-12-28 23:29                           ` Stanley Lieber
  2021-12-29  2:34                             ` vic.thacker
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 71+ messages in thread
From: Stanley Lieber @ 2021-12-28 23:29 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

On December 28, 2021 10:42:27 PM UTC, Humm <hummsmith42@gmail.com> wrote:
>Quoth Duke Normandin:
>> I'm new to Plan9. I don't know fuck all! So I gotta start at the
>> beginning - NOT at sysadmin level. Off to Google ...
>
>The beginning is the name.  The thing you use is “9front”.  The abandoned thing is “Plan 9”.  Note the blank.
>

the plan fell off.

sl

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 71+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] Boot CD chokes
  2021-12-28 23:25                             ` Duke Normandin
@ 2021-12-29  0:20                               ` Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir
  2021-12-29  3:30                                 ` Duke Normandin
                                                   ` (2 more replies)
  0 siblings, 3 replies; 71+ messages in thread
From: Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir @ 2021-12-29  0:20 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 302 bytes --]

9front wiki has some too, for example: http://wiki.9front.org/unix2plan9

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 71+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] Boot CD chokes
  2021-12-28 23:29                           ` Stanley Lieber
@ 2021-12-29  2:34                             ` vic.thacker
  2021-12-29  2:46                               ` Skip Tavakkolian
  2021-12-30 16:15                               ` Glenn Holmer via 9fans
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 71+ messages in thread
From: vic.thacker @ 2021-12-29  2:34 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: leimy2k via 9fans

On Wed, Dec 29, 2021, at 08:29, Stanley Lieber wrote:
> On December 28, 2021 10:42:27 PM UTC, Humm <hummsmith42@gmail.com> wrote:
>>Quoth Duke Normandin:
>>> I'm new to Plan9. I don't know fuck all! So I gotta start at the
>>> beginning - NOT at sysadmin level. Off to Google ...
>>
>>The beginning is the name.  The thing you use is “9front”.  The abandoned thing is “Plan 9”.  Note the blank.
>>
>
> the plan fell off.

If anyone is interested in running classic Plan 9 on classic commodity hardware, I'd be glad to help with issues. Nowadays older computer systems (circa 2000) can often be bought for less than $20 USD per system and components updated for less than a $100 USD per system if needed. Getting classic Plan 9 system working well is an enjoyable past time. As 9fans has become more of a 9front forum, just email me if you need support for classic Plan 9.   

Sincerely,

Vester "Vic" Thacker
v@tip9ug.jp


------------------------------------------
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Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T5888591114a7cf34-M540ec56bfa9c0f7750053213
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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 71+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] Boot CD chokes
  2021-12-29  2:34                             ` vic.thacker
@ 2021-12-29  2:46                               ` Skip Tavakkolian
  2021-12-30 16:15                               ` Glenn Holmer via 9fans
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 71+ messages in thread
From: Skip Tavakkolian @ 2021-12-29  2:46 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1397 bytes --]

CD's are so 1995. For a quick intro, use a RPi4 with 9pi on a microSD card,
and Bob's your uncle.

On Tue, Dec 28, 2021 at 6:36 PM <vic.thacker@fastmail.fm> wrote:

> On Wed, Dec 29, 2021, at 08:29, Stanley Lieber wrote:
> > On December 28, 2021 10:42:27 PM UTC, Humm <hummsmith42@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>Quoth Duke Normandin:
> >>> I'm new to Plan9. I don't know fuck all! So I gotta start at the
> >>> beginning - NOT at sysadmin level. Off to Google ...
> >>
> >>The beginning is the name.  The thing you use is “9front”.  The
> abandoned thing is “Plan 9”.  Note the blank.
> >
> > the plan fell off.
> 
> If anyone is interested in running classic Plan 9 on classic commodity
> hardware, I'd be glad to help with issues. Nowadays older computer systems
> (circa 2000) can often be bought for less than $20 USD per system and
> components updated for less than a $100 USD per system if needed. Getting
> classic Plan 9 system working well is an enjoyable past time. As 9fans has
> become more of a 9front forum, just email me if you need support for
> classic Plan 9.
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> Vester "Vic" Thacker
> v@tip9ug.jp
> 

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Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T5888591114a7cf34-M4038814cc4b439445b78eb4d
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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 71+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] Boot CD chokes
  2021-12-29  0:20                               ` Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir
@ 2021-12-29  3:30                                 ` Duke Normandin
  2021-12-29  3:44                                 ` Humm
  2021-12-30 20:37                                 ` Stuart Morrow
  2 siblings, 0 replies; 71+ messages in thread
From: Duke Normandin @ 2021-12-29  3:30 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

On Wed, 29 Dec 2021 01:20:20 +0100
Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir <ftrvxmtrx@gmail.com> wrote:

> 9front wiki has some too, for example:
> http://wiki.9front.org/unix2plan9

Excellent! Just what I needed to get started with the tinkering.
Þakka þér fyrir / tack ...

-- 
Duke
** Text only please. Bottom post is best for me **

------------------------------------------
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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 71+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] Boot CD chokes
  2021-12-29  0:20                               ` Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir
  2021-12-29  3:30                                 ` Duke Normandin
@ 2021-12-29  3:44                                 ` Humm
  2021-12-29  3:53                                   ` Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir
  2021-12-29  3:55                                   ` ori
  2021-12-30 20:37                                 ` Stuart Morrow
  2 siblings, 2 replies; 71+ messages in thread
From: Humm @ 2021-12-29  3:44 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

Quoth Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir:
>9front wiki has some too, for example: http://wiki.9front.org/unix2plan9

Is that the old list of https://code.9front.org/wiki ?

-- 
Humm

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 71+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] Boot CD chokes
  2021-12-29  3:44                                 ` Humm
@ 2021-12-29  3:53                                   ` Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir
  2021-12-29  5:10                                     ` Humm
  2021-12-29  6:48                                     ` kvik
  2021-12-29  3:55                                   ` ori
  1 sibling, 2 replies; 71+ messages in thread
From: Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir @ 2021-12-29  3:53 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 397 bytes --]

> Is that the old list of https://code.9front.org/wiki ?

It's a proper wiki with the new repo located at
http://only9fans.com/garden/wiki.9front.org/HEAD/info.html

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Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T5888591114a7cf34-M25bb15c77d0d7ce815867da1
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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 71+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] Boot CD chokes
  2021-12-29  3:44                                 ` Humm
  2021-12-29  3:53                                   ` Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir
@ 2021-12-29  3:55                                   ` ori
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 71+ messages in thread
From: ori @ 2021-12-29  3:55 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

Quoth Humm <hummsmith42@gmail.com>:
> Quoth Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir:
> >9front wiki has some too, for example: http://wiki.9front.org/unix2plan9
> 
> Is that the old list of https://code.9front.org/wiki ?
> 

Yes, though probably with some updates (I haven't
been watching the repos)


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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 71+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] Boot CD chokes
  2021-12-29  3:53                                   ` Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir
@ 2021-12-29  5:10                                     ` Humm
  2021-12-29  6:48                                     ` kvik
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 71+ messages in thread
From: Humm @ 2021-12-29  5:10 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

Quoth Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir:
>> Is that the old list of https://code.9front.org/wiki ?
>
>It's a proper wiki with the new repo located at
>http://only9fans.com/garden/wiki.9front.org/HEAD/info.html

Thanks, I know that; I was asking where the list comes from since the 
one I remembered to be in the old wiki apparently died with it.

-- 
Humm

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 71+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] Boot CD chokes
  2021-12-29  3:53                                   ` Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir
  2021-12-29  5:10                                     ` Humm
@ 2021-12-29  6:48                                     ` kvik
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 71+ messages in thread
From: kvik @ 2021-12-29  6:48 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

> Thanks, I know that; I was asking where the list comes from since the
> one I remembered to be in the old wiki apparently died with it.

I pulled most of the articles into a new wiki, including the unix29 lists.
No information considered dead.

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 71+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] Boot CD chokes
  2021-12-29  2:34                             ` vic.thacker
  2021-12-29  2:46                               ` Skip Tavakkolian
@ 2021-12-30 16:15                               ` Glenn Holmer via 9fans
  2021-12-30 18:01                                 ` hiro
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 71+ messages in thread
From: Glenn Holmer via 9fans @ 2021-12-30 16:15 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 512 bytes --]

On 12/28/21 20:34, vic.thacker@fastmail.fm wrote:
> Getting classic Plan 9 system working well is an enjoyable past time.

"past time"... Truer words were never spoken.

-- 
Glenn Holmer (Linux registered user #16682)
"After the vintage season came the aftermath -- and Cenbe."
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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 71+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] Boot CD chokes
  2021-12-30 16:15                               ` Glenn Holmer via 9fans
@ 2021-12-30 18:01                                 ` hiro
  2021-12-30 18:25                                   ` Steve Simon
  2021-12-31 11:45                                   ` vic.thacker
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 71+ messages in thread
From: hiro @ 2021-12-30 18:01 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

let's not pretend there's something great that you would miss out on
without the combination of IDE hardware and the half-assed support for
it in 4th edition.

i don't know what aspect exactly of "classic" computing motivates you
to recommend this struggle, vick.

On 12/30/21, Glenn Holmer via 9fans <9fans@9fans.net> wrote:
> On 12/28/21 20:34, vic.thacker@fastmail.fm wrote:
>> Getting classic Plan 9 system working well is an enjoyable past time.
> 
> "past time"... Truer words were never spoken.
> 
> --
> Glenn Holmer (Linux registered user #16682)
> "After the vintage season came the aftermath -- and Cenbe."

------------------------------------------
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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 71+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] Boot CD chokes
  2021-12-30 18:01                                 ` hiro
@ 2021-12-30 18:25                                   ` Steve Simon
  2021-12-30 18:28                                     ` hiro
  2021-12-30 19:24                                     ` Glenn Holmer via 9fans
  2021-12-31 11:45                                   ` vic.thacker
  1 sibling, 2 replies; 71+ messages in thread
From: Steve Simon @ 2021-12-30 18:25 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans


thought experiment:

imagine someone was commenting on the 9front mailing list how 9front was not worth bothering with and how the OP should use OSX. that would make the 9front people a little frustrated.

> i don't know what aspect exactly of
> "classic" computing motivates you
> to recommend this struggle.



------------------------------------------
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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 71+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] Boot CD chokes
  2021-12-30 18:25                                   ` Steve Simon
@ 2021-12-30 18:28                                     ` hiro
  2021-12-30 19:24                                     ` Glenn Holmer via 9fans
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 71+ messages in thread
From: hiro @ 2021-12-30 18:28 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

the whole point of 9fans is just that so i don't get the joke

On 12/30/21, Steve Simon <steve@quintile.net> wrote:
>
> thought experiment:
>
> imagine someone was commenting on the 9front mailing list how 9front was
> not worth bothering with and how the OP should use OSX. that would make the
> 9front people a little frustrated.
>
>> i don't know what aspect exactly of
>> "classic" computing motivates you
>> to recommend this struggle.
> 
> 

------------------------------------------
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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 71+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] Boot CD chokes
  2021-12-30 18:25                                   ` Steve Simon
  2021-12-30 18:28                                     ` hiro
@ 2021-12-30 19:24                                     ` Glenn Holmer via 9fans
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 71+ messages in thread
From: Glenn Holmer via 9fans @ 2021-12-30 19:24 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 591 bytes --]

On 12/30/21 12:25, Steve Simon wrote:
> imagine someone was commenting on the 9front mailing list how 9front
> was not worth bothering with and how the OP should use OSX. that
> would make the 9front people a little frustrated.

pretzel logic

-- 
Glenn Holmer (Linux registered user #16682)
"After the vintage season came the aftermath -- and Cenbe."
------------------------------------------
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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 71+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] Boot CD chokes
  2021-12-29  0:20                               ` Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir
  2021-12-29  3:30                                 ` Duke Normandin
  2021-12-29  3:44                                 ` Humm
@ 2021-12-30 20:37                                 ` Stuart Morrow
  2 siblings, 0 replies; 71+ messages in thread
From: Stuart Morrow @ 2021-12-30 20:37 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

On 29/12/2021, Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir <ftrvxmtrx@gmail.com> wrote:
> 9front wiki has some too, for example: http://wiki.9front.org/unix2plan9

Needs chgrp for chown.

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 71+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] Boot CD chokes
  2021-12-30 18:01                                 ` hiro
  2021-12-30 18:25                                   ` Steve Simon
@ 2021-12-31 11:45                                   ` vic.thacker
  2021-12-31 11:55                                     ` hiro
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 71+ messages in thread
From: vic.thacker @ 2021-12-31 11:45 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: leimy2k via 9fans

On Fri, Dec 31, 2021, at 03:01, hiro wrote:
> let's not pretend there's something great that you would miss out on
> without the combination of IDE hardware and the half-assed support for
> it in 4th edition.
>
> i don't know what aspect exactly of "classic" computing motivates you
> to recommend this struggle, vick.

With 9front cancel culture/tribalism aside, I find making "classic" Plan 9 work on hardware to be enjoyable.  It is an inexpensive hobby and the sense of discovery is still there.  I never thought that I'd have to justify my use of Plan 9 on 9fans.

Happy New Year!

Vester "Vic" Thacker

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 71+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] Boot CD chokes
  2021-12-31 11:45                                   ` vic.thacker
@ 2021-12-31 11:55                                     ` hiro
  2021-12-31 12:42                                       ` Lucio De Re
  2021-12-31 14:09                                       ` vic.thacker
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 71+ messages in thread
From: hiro @ 2021-12-31 11:55 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

what makes it enjoyable hardware? when is it classic? anything that's
older than 10y or what?

it's surely fun to install plan9 on a hundred random computers and get
lucky and have everything work. but that's just not been my
experience.

so instead i learned to be a little bit picky about the hardware
avoiding having to write drivers for everything that doesn't work.

just curious what kind of "classic" you're going for, i wasn't trying
to chastise you. IDE isn't *that* old either. we have other people
playing with pdp emulators.

in my experience with those expensive energy prices where i live the
only thing expensive would be if you keep a lot of PCs running at the
same time 24/7.

On 12/31/21, vic.thacker@fastmail.fm <vic.thacker@fastmail.fm> wrote:
> On Fri, Dec 31, 2021, at 03:01, hiro wrote:
>> let's not pretend there's something great that you would miss out on
>> without the combination of IDE hardware and the half-assed support for
>> it in 4th edition.
>>
>> i don't know what aspect exactly of "classic" computing motivates you
>> to recommend this struggle, vick.
> 
> With 9front cancel culture/tribalism aside, I find making "classic" Plan 9
> work on hardware to be enjoyable.  It is an inexpensive hobby and the sense
> of discovery is still there.  I never thought that I'd have to justify my
> use of Plan 9 on 9fans.
> 
> Happy New Year!
> 
> Vester "Vic" Thacker

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Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T5888591114a7cf34-M4872739044c6fba283487067
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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 71+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] Boot CD chokes
  2021-12-31 11:55                                     ` hiro
@ 2021-12-31 12:42                                       ` Lucio De Re
  2022-01-01  3:00                                         ` vic.thacker
  2021-12-31 14:09                                       ` vic.thacker
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 71+ messages in thread
From: Lucio De Re @ 2021-12-31 12:42 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

On 12/31/21, hiro <23hiro@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> so instead i learned to be a little bit picky about the hardware
> avoiding having to write drivers for everything that doesn't work.
>
The Lenovo Thinkpad T68 I managed to lay my hands on wasn't that cheap
and came with an Atheros based wi-fi card. So, yes one has to be
picky. I think I can replace the card, but it won't come cheaply. SSD
and memory are a hassle, too.

I've had an HP Pavilion for long enough to wear the lettering on some
popular keys away and only discovered recently that in fact it will
run 9front out of the box. Legacy doesn't seem to support XHCI (USB)
and I have no idea quite how that connects to both the ethernet and
the wi-fi adapters, that's a research project by itself; unlike what I
imagine drives Vic, I like to know that I can complete a task within a
reasonable time and my poor knowledge means little does get
accomplished around here. But I do enjoy the rare achievement when I
get that right (my Plan 9 workstation uses freefonts through fontsrv,
hardly perfect, but I can choose from a very broad range of fonts -
not that I need to, mind you, it's just that I have yet to find a
satisfactory font, Ubuntu comes close).

9atom can shut down all the hardware I boot it on, neither legacy nor
9front can do the same, again, on the hardware I own (and I have some
old stuff lying around). I have little idea how to compare the three
kernels as they have diverged rather significantly, based on the
source code. I do wish I could propagate my preferences into a single
Plan 9 kernel release, I find the divergence very frustrating. Full
disclosure: I don't "run" 9atom on anything.

I can see where 9front has the edge, by quite a margin, and I hesitate
to suggest that it has veered off the Plan 9 tradition to accommodate
the PC complexities, without quite addressing the real objectives of
PC platforms: web browsing, office document handling and gaming. I
don't believe that any descendant of Plan 9 can retain simplicity and
fulfil those needs.

When  it comes to "research", though, specially slightly unfocussed
personal satisfaction type of research, I find legacy - which I have
known since early in the 1990s, I own a 2ed CD set - more true to its
own philosophy.

Like Hiro, I don't for one moment want to chastise 9front users, I can
see why their aims are very different from my own. I am however
entitled to pursue mine, with no need to draw insignificant
comparisons that can so quickly devolve into pissing contests.

Just my perspective. I'd like to hear how Vic sees this kind of cyber
archeology. Or anyone else's views, for that matter.

Lucio.

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* Re: [9fans] Boot CD chokes
  2021-12-31 11:55                                     ` hiro
  2021-12-31 12:42                                       ` Lucio De Re
@ 2021-12-31 14:09                                       ` vic.thacker
  2021-12-31 14:27                                         ` hiro
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 71+ messages in thread
From: vic.thacker @ 2021-12-31 14:09 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: leimy2k via 9fans

On Fri, Dec 31, 2021, at 20:55, hiro wrote:
> what makes it enjoyable hardware? when is it classic? anything that's
> older than 10y or what?

 I suppose classic could be any x86 based computer system that came out about the same time as Plan 9 fourth edition. Someone once referred to Plan 9 fourth edition as being classic, so I borrowed the notion.

> it's surely fun to install plan9 on a hundred random computers and get
> lucky and have everything work. but that's just not been my
> experience.
>
> so instead i learned to be a little bit picky about the hardware
> avoiding having to write drivers for everything that doesn't work.

Having a used computer hardware store five minutes away which sells and buys old hardware makes the pain of trial and error less painful. If something does not work, just sell it back to the store. Intel desktop motherboards circa 2003 work very well. I recently purchased an Intel motherboard with CPU & CPU fan (1,000 yen),  video card (1000 yen), a 400 Watt PSU  (300 yen), a CD-ROM (300 yen), and 1.5 GB of RAM (300 yen).  A 1,000 yen is approximately $8.69 USD for those reading this. Also, I purchased a complete, working Dell workstation (2003) for 1,000 yen that works well as a terminal.  With hardware this inexpensive, my primary concern has been to ensure that I can back up and restore data. 

> just curious what kind of "classic" you're going for, i wasn't trying
> to chastise you. IDE isn't *that* old either. we have other people
> playing with pdp emulators.

Yes,  Dennis was kind enough to give me and another fellow working on the Simh emulator a copy of  8th Edition UNIX labeled TAPE.  Good times.

> in my experience with those expensive energy prices where i live the
> only thing expensive would be if you keep a lot of PCs running at the
> same time 24/7.

In Kanagawa prefecture (Japan) where I live, energy prices are expensive during the day and slightly less expensive during the late evening hours.  With three machines, firewall, and switch, running 24/7, the cost of electricity has been about 5,000 yen extra a month to run a Plan 9 system.  

There are many reasons why I find Plan 9 enjoyable. Every time someone asks, I seem to give yet another reason as to why. The cost of getting started, the return on investment, the challenge, the sense of accomplishment of writing a book with acme, helping others get their Plan 9 system up and running to name a few reasons. Also, I enjoy writing other Plan 9 users and asking for advice and coming away with the feeling of camaraderie between long-time Plan 9 users.  I've met a lot of great people along the way. Many of my friends (Plan 9 users) have since passed away, but the memories of them remain. I suppose using Plan 9 reminds me of happier times when I use it.

明けましておめでとうございます。
Happy New Year,

Vester "Vic" Thacker

------------------------------------------
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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 71+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] Boot CD chokes
  2021-12-31 14:09                                       ` vic.thacker
@ 2021-12-31 14:27                                         ` hiro
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 71+ messages in thread
From: hiro @ 2021-12-31 14:27 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

yeah, this mostly fits my experience. usable hardware has become
virtually free. the result being that people throw them at me and i
have so many computers that i can use a dedicated one for every little
project.

the only reason for me to ever consider newer gear (like rpi or modern
thinkpads) is power efficiency. but i am able to hold out for the time
being.

i certainly think that running plan9 on classic hardware has been very
enjoyable, esp. since the 9front bootloader fixed booting from all the
IDE ports. you could say 9front is most classical plan9 bec. it boots.

On 12/31/21, vic.thacker@fastmail.fm <vic.thacker@fastmail.fm> wrote:
> On Fri, Dec 31, 2021, at 20:55, hiro wrote:
>> what makes it enjoyable hardware? when is it classic? anything that's
>> older than 10y or what?
>
>  I suppose classic could be any x86 based computer system that came out
> about the same time as Plan 9 fourth edition. Someone once referred to Plan
> 9 fourth edition as being classic, so I borrowed the notion.
>
>> it's surely fun to install plan9 on a hundred random computers and get
>> lucky and have everything work. but that's just not been my
>> experience.
>>
>> so instead i learned to be a little bit picky about the hardware
>> avoiding having to write drivers for everything that doesn't work.
>
> Having a used computer hardware store five minutes away which sells and buys
> old hardware makes the pain of trial and error less painful. If something
> does not work, just sell it back to the store. Intel desktop motherboards
> circa 2003 work very well. I recently purchased an Intel motherboard with
> CPU & CPU fan (1,000 yen),  video card (1000 yen), a 400 Watt PSU  (300
> yen), a CD-ROM (300 yen), and 1.5 GB of RAM (300 yen).  A 1,000 yen is
> approximately $8.69 USD for those reading this. Also, I purchased a
> complete, working Dell workstation (2003) for 1,000 yen that works well as a
> terminal.  With hardware this inexpensive, my primary concern has been to
> ensure that I can back up and restore data.
>
>> just curious what kind of "classic" you're going for, i wasn't trying
>> to chastise you. IDE isn't *that* old either. we have other people
>> playing with pdp emulators.
>
> Yes,  Dennis was kind enough to give me and another fellow working on the
> Simh emulator a copy of  8th Edition UNIX labeled TAPE.  Good times.
>
>> in my experience with those expensive energy prices where i live the
>> only thing expensive would be if you keep a lot of PCs running at the
>> same time 24/7.
> 
> In Kanagawa prefecture (Japan) where I live, energy prices are expensive
> during the day and slightly less expensive during the late evening hours.
> With three machines, firewall, and switch, running 24/7, the cost of
> electricity has been about 5,000 yen extra a month to run a Plan 9 system.
> 
> There are many reasons why I find Plan 9 enjoyable. Every time someone asks,
> I seem to give yet another reason as to why. The cost of getting started,
> the return on investment, the challenge, the sense of accomplishment of
> writing a book with acme, helping others get their Plan 9 system up and
> running to name a few reasons. Also, I enjoy writing other Plan 9 users and
> asking for advice and coming away with the feeling of camaraderie between
> long-time Plan 9 users.  I've met a lot of great people along the way. Many
> of my friends (Plan 9 users) have since passed away, but the memories of
> them remain. I suppose using Plan 9 reminds me of happier times when I use
> it.
> 
> 明けましておめでとうございます。
> Happy New Year,
> 
> Vester "Vic" Thacker

------------------------------------------
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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 71+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] Boot CD chokes
  2021-12-31 12:42                                       ` Lucio De Re
@ 2022-01-01  3:00                                         ` vic.thacker
  2022-01-01 18:21                                           ` Stuart Morrow
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 71+ messages in thread
From: vic.thacker @ 2022-01-01  3:00 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: leimy2k via 9fans

On Fri, Dec 31, 2021, at 21:42, Lucio De Re wrote:
[snip]
>
> Just my perspective. I'd like to hear how Vic sees this kind of cyber
> archeology. Or anyone else's views, for that matter.

I don't have much to say about cyber archeology.  I am simply grateful to see Plan 9 (4th edition), 9front, 9legacy, and other distributions have an open-source license. There is comfort knowing we can modify and create.   

Best wishes for a prosperous and happy new year.

Vester "Vic" Thacker

------------------------------------------
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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 71+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] Boot CD chokes
  2022-01-01  3:00                                         ` vic.thacker
@ 2022-01-01 18:21                                           ` Stuart Morrow
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 71+ messages in thread
From: Stuart Morrow @ 2022-01-01 18:21 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

On 01/01/2022, vic.thacker@fastmail.fm <vic.thacker@fastmail.fm> wrote:
> I am simply grateful to see Plan 9 (4th edition),... and other distributions have an
> open-source license. There is comfort knowing we can modify and create.

And the older stuff, since to my knowledge it wasn't otherwise
available. Space war has already been brought into 9front.

------------------------------------------
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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 71+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] Boot CD chokes
  2021-12-28 13:54   ` vic.thacker
@ 2021-12-28 15:28     ` Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 71+ messages in thread
From: Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir @ 2021-12-28 15:28 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 366 bytes --]

> might work too.

If you consider autopsy of old and unsupported software
full of bugs "fun" and not a complete waste of time, sure.

------------------------------------------
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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 71+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] Boot CD chokes
  2021-12-28  1:03 Duke
  2021-12-28  1:07 ` Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir
  2021-12-28 13:06 ` vic.thacker
@ 2021-12-28 13:58 ` hiro
  2 siblings, 0 replies; 71+ messages in thread
From: hiro @ 2021-12-28 13:58 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans, Duke

did you try 9front?

Duke <dukeofpurl@gmx.com> wrote:

> Boot process halts almost from the start at message:
> 
> Verifying DMI Pool Data ........
> Boot from CD: PBSR...EI
> 
> Then nothing! Keyboard not hung. Press any key and it reboots.
> 
> This is on an amd athlon xp 2000+ / 1G RAM / 2nd Master = CD-RW, ATA 33
> Ideas / clues please. TIA ..
> --
> Duke

-- 
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

------------------------------------------
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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 71+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] Boot CD chokes
  2021-12-28  1:07 ` Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir
  2021-12-28  3:40   ` Duke
@ 2021-12-28 13:54   ` vic.thacker
  2021-12-28 15:28     ` Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 71+ messages in thread
From: vic.thacker @ 2021-12-28 13:54 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: leimy2k via 9fans

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 755 bytes --]


https://tip9ug.jp/download/Plan_9_4th_Edition.2004.iso might work too.

On Tue, Dec 28, 2021, at 10:07, Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir wrote:
> http://9front.org/iso/
> 
> *9fans <https://9fans.topicbox.com/latest>* / 9fans / see discussions <https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans> + participants <https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/members> + delivery options <https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription> Permalink <https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/Taeb81f6ee55079e5-M8bfa9b78331d012fd0a8b921>

------------------------------------------
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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 71+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] Boot CD chokes
  2021-12-28  1:03 Duke
  2021-12-28  1:07 ` Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir
@ 2021-12-28 13:06 ` vic.thacker
  2021-12-28 13:58 ` hiro
  2 siblings, 0 replies; 71+ messages in thread
From: vic.thacker @ 2021-12-28 13:06 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: leimy2k via 9fans

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1409 bytes --]

Hi Duke,

What worked for me was to assign a device to both IDE connector 1 and IDE connector 2 instead of using a single cable with IDE connector 1. I assigned the IDE 1 to the hard disk drive bay, and assigned IDE 2 to CD-ROM. 

As an aside, my hard disk drive bay connected to IDE connector 1 is empty. I added it get get past the boot error. I use SATA 0 for the hard disk drive as I prefer to use a higher capacity hard disk drive.

Sincerely,
Vester


On Tue, Dec 28, 2021, at 10:03, Duke wrote:
> Boot process halts almost from the start at message:
> 
> Verifying DMI Pool Data ........
> Boot from CD: PBSR...EI
> 
> Then nothing! Keyboard not hung. Press any key and it reboots.
> 
> This is on an amd athlon xp 2000+ / 1G RAM / 2nd Master = CD-RW, ATA 33
> Ideas / clues please. TIA ..
> --
> Duke
> *9fans <https://9fans.topicbox.com/latest>* / 9fans / see discussions <https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans> + participants <https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/members> + delivery options <https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription> Permalink <https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/Taeb81f6ee55079e5-M3f4bc68fee3972f7e7fcb148>

------------------------------------------
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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 71+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] Boot CD chokes
  2021-12-28  1:07 ` Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir
@ 2021-12-28  3:40   ` Duke
  2021-12-28 13:54   ` vic.thacker
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 71+ messages in thread
From: Duke @ 2021-12-28  3:40 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 265 bytes --]

Thank you Sigrid!! From *Ísland? ;)*
------------------------------------------
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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 71+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] Boot CD chokes
  2021-12-28  1:03 Duke
@ 2021-12-28  1:07 ` Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir
  2021-12-28  3:40   ` Duke
  2021-12-28 13:54   ` vic.thacker
  2021-12-28 13:06 ` vic.thacker
  2021-12-28 13:58 ` hiro
  2 siblings, 2 replies; 71+ messages in thread
From: Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir @ 2021-12-28  1:07 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 252 bytes --]

http://9front.org/iso/

------------------------------------------
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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 71+ messages in thread

* [9fans] Boot CD chokes
@ 2021-12-28  1:03 Duke
  2021-12-28  1:07 ` Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir
                   ` (2 more replies)
  0 siblings, 3 replies; 71+ messages in thread
From: Duke @ 2021-12-28  1:03 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 522 bytes --]

Boot process halts almost from the start at message:

Verifying DMI Pool Data ........
Boot from CD: PBSR...EI

Then nothing! Keyboard not hung. Press any key and it reboots.

This is on an amd athlon xp 2000+ / 1G RAM / 2nd Master = CD-RW, ATA 33
Ideas / clues please. TIA ..
--
Duke
------------------------------------------
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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 71+ messages in thread

end of thread, other threads:[~2022-01-01 18:21 UTC | newest]

Thread overview: 71+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2021-12-28 15:32 [9fans] Boot CD chokes Duke Normandin
2021-12-28 15:50 ` hiro
2021-12-28 15:57   ` Duke Normandin
2021-12-28 16:01     ` Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir
2021-12-28 16:09       ` Duke Normandin
2021-12-28 16:24         ` Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir
2021-12-28 16:28       ` Duke Normandin
2021-12-28 16:31         ` Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir
2021-12-28 16:41           ` Duke Normandin
2021-12-28 16:48             ` Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir
2021-12-28 16:55               ` Duke Normandin
2021-12-28 16:58                 ` Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir
2021-12-28 16:59                 ` hiro
2021-12-28 17:06                   ` Duke Normandin
2021-12-28 17:20                     ` hiro
2021-12-28 17:28                       ` Eli Cohen
2021-12-28 17:35                         ` Duke Normandin
2021-12-28 17:56                           ` Frank D. Engel, Jr.
2021-12-28 18:03                             ` Duke Normandin
2021-12-28 18:11                               ` Eli Cohen
2021-12-28 18:22                                 ` Duke Normandin
2021-12-28 18:16                               ` Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir
2021-12-28 18:35                               ` vic.thacker
2021-12-28 18:45                                 ` Duke Normandin
2021-12-28 19:01                                   ` hiro
2021-12-28 19:21                                     ` Duke Normandin
2021-12-28 20:12                                       ` hiro
2021-12-28 20:26                                         ` Duke Normandin
2021-12-28 20:33                                           ` hiro
2021-12-28 20:32                                         ` Duke Normandin
2021-12-28 20:35                                           ` hiro
2021-12-28 18:44                               ` ori
2021-12-28 23:16                           ` Bakul Shah
2021-12-28 23:25                             ` Duke Normandin
2021-12-29  0:20                               ` Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir
2021-12-29  3:30                                 ` Duke Normandin
2021-12-29  3:44                                 ` Humm
2021-12-29  3:53                                   ` Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir
2021-12-29  5:10                                     ` Humm
2021-12-29  6:48                                     ` kvik
2021-12-29  3:55                                   ` ori
2021-12-30 20:37                                 ` Stuart Morrow
2021-12-28 17:23                     ` ori
2021-12-28 17:29                       ` Duke Normandin
2021-12-28 22:42                         ` Humm
2021-12-28 23:29                           ` Stanley Lieber
2021-12-29  2:34                             ` vic.thacker
2021-12-29  2:46                               ` Skip Tavakkolian
2021-12-30 16:15                               ` Glenn Holmer via 9fans
2021-12-30 18:01                                 ` hiro
2021-12-30 18:25                                   ` Steve Simon
2021-12-30 18:28                                     ` hiro
2021-12-30 19:24                                     ` Glenn Holmer via 9fans
2021-12-31 11:45                                   ` vic.thacker
2021-12-31 11:55                                     ` hiro
2021-12-31 12:42                                       ` Lucio De Re
2022-01-01  3:00                                         ` vic.thacker
2022-01-01 18:21                                           ` Stuart Morrow
2021-12-31 14:09                                       ` vic.thacker
2021-12-31 14:27                                         ` hiro
2021-12-28 16:50             ` ori
2021-12-28 16:55               ` hiro
2021-12-28 15:54 ` Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir
2021-12-28 16:08   ` Duke Normandin
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2021-12-28  1:03 Duke
2021-12-28  1:07 ` Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir
2021-12-28  3:40   ` Duke
2021-12-28 13:54   ` vic.thacker
2021-12-28 15:28     ` Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir
2021-12-28 13:06 ` vic.thacker
2021-12-28 13:58 ` hiro

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