From: "Alyssa M via 9fans" <9fans@9fans.net>
To: 9fans <9fans@9fans.net>
Subject: Re: mmaping on plan9? (was Re: [9fans] venti /plan9port mmapped
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2026 22:35:56 -0500 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <17710401560.A0E9fA4ec.5667@composer.9fans.topicbox.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CAEoi9W525QzT5_K1m6fntPmXVknAuYq1=1CU19G2r5EiDU0Vew@mail.gmail.com>
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2164 bytes --]
On Friday, February 13, 2026, at 1:36 AM, Dan Cross wrote:
> Let me be blunt: the `mmap` interface, as specified in 4.2BSD and
implemented in a bunch of Unix and Unix-like systems, is atrocious.
Its roots come from a system that was radically different in design
than Unix, and its baroque design, with a bunch of operations
multiplexed onto a single call with 6 (!!) arguments, two of which are
bitmaps that interact in abstruse ways and one of which can radically
alter the semantics of the call, really shows. I believe that it __is__ possible to do better.
I'm definitely with you there.
What I'm trying to do is explore whether the standard read/write calls with a different implementation could make mmap redundant by using the combination of demand paging and copy-on-write to defer or elide I/O. This is not mmap, and not really memory mapping in the conventional sense either. But I think it can do the things an mmap user is looking for (so long as they're not looking for frame buffers or shared memory.) A successful implementation will not be detectably different from the traditional read/write calls except with respect to deferred or elided I/O.
The key ideas are that the read (and write!) system calls associate buffer pages with a snapshot of the file data involved (which is then demand loaded - deferred), and altering memory pages breaks that association, and associates the altered pages with the swap file. Pages that are still associated with the file region they're being written to are not written (this is the eliding part). Fragments of pages are treated traditionally. The segment this happens in may be logically much larger even than the swap area - and not is pre-allocated, so pages are either allocated swap space on demand, or are associated with snapshots.
There's much more I could say, but I don't have it all working yet, and making it work at scale is probably another story.
------------------------------------------
9fans: 9fans
Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/Te8d7c6e48b5c075b-M2ad0abab705206e4d7351e45
Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription
[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 2839 bytes --]
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2026-02-14 7:15 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 92+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2026-01-02 19:54 [9fans] venti /plan9port mmapped wb.kloke
2026-01-02 20:39 ` ori
2026-01-02 20:58 ` Bakul Shah via 9fans
2026-01-06 22:59 ` Ron Minnich
2026-01-07 4:27 ` Noam Preil
2026-01-07 6:15 ` Shawn Rutledge
2026-01-07 15:46 ` Persistent memory (was Re: [9fans] venti /plan9port mmapped) arnold
2026-01-07 16:11 ` Noam Preil
2026-01-07 17:26 ` Wes Kussmaul
2026-01-07 8:52 ` [9fans] venti /plan9port mmapped wb.kloke
2026-01-07 16:30 ` mmaping on plan9? (was " Bakul Shah via 9fans
2026-01-07 16:40 ` Noam Preil
2026-01-07 16:41 ` ori
2026-01-07 20:35 ` Bakul Shah via 9fans
2026-01-07 21:31 ` ron minnich
2026-01-08 7:56 ` arnold
2026-01-08 10:31 ` wb.kloke
2026-01-09 0:02 ` ron minnich
2026-01-09 3:57 ` Paul Lalonde
2026-01-09 5:10 ` ron minnich
2026-01-09 5:18 ` arnold
2026-01-09 6:06 ` David Leimbach via 9fans
2026-01-09 17:13 ` ron minnich
2026-01-09 17:39 ` tlaronde
2026-01-09 19:48 ` David Leimbach via 9fans
2026-02-05 21:30 ` Alyssa M via 9fans
2026-02-08 14:18 ` Ethan Azariah
2026-02-08 15:10 ` Alyssa M via 9fans
2026-02-08 20:43 ` Ethan Azariah
2026-02-09 1:35 ` ron minnich
2026-02-09 15:23 ` ron minnich
2026-02-09 17:13 ` Bakul Shah via 9fans
2026-02-09 21:38 ` ron minnich
2026-02-10 10:13 ` Alyssa M via 9fans
2026-02-11 1:43 ` Ron Minnich
2026-02-11 2:19 ` Bakul Shah via 9fans
2026-02-11 3:21 ` Ori Bernstein
2026-02-11 10:01 ` hiro
2026-02-12 1:36 ` Dan Cross
2026-02-12 5:39 ` Alyssa M via 9fans
2026-02-12 9:08 ` hiro via 9fans
2026-02-12 13:34 ` Alyssa M via 9fans
2026-02-13 13:48 ` hiro
2026-02-13 17:21 ` ron minnich
2026-02-15 16:12 ` Danny Wilkins via 9fans
2026-02-17 3:13 ` Alyssa M via 9fans
2026-02-17 13:02 ` Dan Cross
2026-02-17 16:00 ` ron minnich
2026-02-17 16:39 ` hiro
2026-02-17 16:56 ` Bakul Shah via 9fans
2026-02-17 17:54 ` hiro
2026-02-17 22:21 ` Alyssa M via 9fans
2026-02-16 2:24 ` Alyssa M via 9fans
2026-02-16 3:17 ` Ori Bernstein
2026-02-16 10:55 ` Frank D. Engel, Jr.
2026-02-16 13:49 ` Ori Bernstein
2026-02-16 19:40 ` Bakul Shah via 9fans
2026-02-16 19:43 ` Bakul Shah via 9fans
2026-02-16 9:50 ` tlaronde
2026-02-16 12:24 ` hiro via 9fans
2026-02-16 12:33 ` hiro via 9fans
2026-02-11 14:22 ` Dan Cross
2026-02-11 18:44 ` Ori Bernstein
2026-02-12 1:22 ` Dan Cross
2026-02-12 4:26 ` Ori Bernstein
2026-02-12 4:34 ` Dan Cross
2026-02-12 3:12 ` Alyssa M via 9fans
2026-02-12 4:52 ` Dan Cross
2026-02-12 8:37 ` Alyssa M via 9fans
2026-02-12 12:37 ` hiro via 9fans
2026-02-13 1:36 ` Dan Cross
2026-02-14 3:35 ` Alyssa M via 9fans [this message]
2026-02-14 14:26 ` Dan Cross
2026-02-15 4:34 ` Bakul Shah via 9fans
2026-02-15 10:19 ` hiro
2026-02-10 16:49 ` wb.kloke
2026-02-08 14:08 ` Ethan Azariah
2026-01-07 21:40 ` ori
2026-01-07 16:52 ` ori
2026-01-07 17:37 ` wb.kloke
2026-01-07 17:46 ` Noam Preil
2026-01-07 17:56 ` wb.kloke
2026-01-07 18:07 ` Noam Preil
2026-01-07 18:58 ` wb.kloke
2026-01-07 14:57 ` Thaddeus Woskowiak
2026-01-07 16:07 ` Wes Kussmaul
2026-01-07 16:22 ` Noam Preil
2026-01-07 17:31 ` Wes Kussmaul
2026-01-07 16:13 ` Noam Preil
2026-01-02 21:01 ` ori
2026-01-08 15:59 ` wb.kloke
2026-02-11 23:19 ` red
Reply instructions:
You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:
* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
and reply-to-all from there: mbox
Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style
* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
switches of git-send-email(1):
git send-email \
--in-reply-to=17710401560.A0E9fA4ec.5667@composer.9fans.topicbox.com \
--to=9fans@9fans.net \
/path/to/YOUR_REPLY
https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html
* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line
before the message body.
This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox;
as well as URLs for NNTP newsgroup(s).