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@ 1995-08-06 21:20 MAILER-DAEMON
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>From ncrgw1!cse.psu.edu!9fans Sun Aug 6 17:21 EDT 1995 remote from ncrhub4
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To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu
Subject: emoticons
Date: Fri, 4 Aug 1995 16:29:27 -0400
From: Scott Schwartz <schwartz@galapagos.cse.psu.edu>
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The utf paper says "why type :-) when you can use the character b\x18:?".
Under unix, sam supports <compose>:) to generate the happy face,
but that Rune seems to be missing from /sys/src/9/port/latin1.c.
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* Returned mail
@ 1996-04-26 9:32 Mail
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>From: cse.psu.edu!9fans
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>From: plan9.ecf.toronto.edu!steve
To: cse.psu.edu!9fans
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 1996 12:03:37 -0400
Subject: Re: fyi - regarding SNK authentication boxes
Message-Id: <96Apr24.120839edt.78761@colossus.cse.psu.edu>
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> How much does the SNK-010 cost?
We bought ours for $89 each (quantity >30), they are probably cheaper in the US.
A couple years ago we bought the SNK-004 for $90 each (quantity 3).
Their web site is http://www.digpath.com/
Here are the prices a Canadian reseller gave:
> From: norman@hprc.utoronto.ca (Norman Wilson)
> To: ut-admins@utcc.utoronto.ca
> Subject: Possible bulk order of challenge/response boxes; any takers?
>
> Our department is planning to buy some Digital Pathways SNK-010
> challenge/response tokens. They are cheaper if bought in quantity.
> Is anyone else interested in joining a bulk purchase? The price
> quotes I have right now are
> $129/token quantity 1-9
> $99/token quantity 10-29
> $89/token quantity >=30
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 34+ messages in thread
* Returned mail
@ 1996-04-26 8:45 Mail
0 siblings, 0 replies; 34+ messages in thread
From: Mail @ 1996-04-26 8:45 UTC (permalink / raw)
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>From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Apr 24 11:36:17 0400 1996
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>From: cse.psu.edu!9fans
>From: cse.psu.edu!9fans
>From: cse.psu.edu!9fans
>From: cse.psu.edu!9fans
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Message-Id: <9604241536.AA20285@symsun5>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <ngr@symsun5>
>From: symbionics.co.uk!ngr ("Nigel Roles")
To: cse.psu.edu!9fans
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 1996 11:36:17 -0400
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Subject: Re: fyi - regarding SNK authentication boxes
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> How much does the SNK-010 cost?
>
Oh. That reminds me. I've developed the code for a home-brew one
based on an Atmel 20 pin 8051 part. The breadboard version is rather
large and doesn't fit my pocket. Anyone any suggestions of feasible
plastics?
Nigel Roles
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 34+ messages in thread
* Returned mail
@ 1996-04-26 8:01 Mail
0 siblings, 0 replies; 34+ messages in thread
From: Mail @ 1996-04-26 8:01 UTC (permalink / raw)
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>From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Apr 24 10:09:53 0400 1996
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>From: cse.psu.edu!9fans
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>From: infinet.com!lutherh (Luther Huffman, Jr.)
To: cse.psu.edu!9fans
Subject: Re: fyi - regarding SNK authentication boxes
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 1996 10:09:53 -0400
Organization: Strategic Computer Solutions, Inc.
Message-Id: <317e3600.232803@mail.infinet.com>
References: <96Apr24.094328edt.78725@colossus.cse.psu.edu>
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How much does the SNK-010 cost?
Luther Huffman lutherh@stratcom.com
On Wed, 24 Apr 1996 09:33:51 -0400, steve@plan9.ecf.toronto.edu wrote:
>The latest model is the SNK-010, which is slightly different than the SNK-004.
>The differences are improvements: there is a built-in hard plastic folding
>cover now, and the keys and display are larger and easier to see.
>The internal algorithm is the same.
>
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 34+ messages in thread
* Returned mail
@ 1996-04-26 7:28 Mail
0 siblings, 0 replies; 34+ messages in thread
From: Mail @ 1996-04-26 7:28 UTC (permalink / raw)
Your mail could not be delivered because of the following reason:
----- Transcript of session follows -----
Too many hops
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>From 9fans@cse.psu.edu Wed Apr 24 09:33:51 0400 1996
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>From: cse.psu.edu!9fans
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>From: plan9.ecf.toronto.edu!steve
To: cse.psu.edu!9fans
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 1996 09:33:51 -0400
Subject: fyi - regarding SNK authentication boxes
Message-Id: <96Apr24.094328edt.78725@colossus.cse.psu.edu>
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The latest model is the SNK-010, which is slightly different than the SNK-004.
The differences are improvements: there is a built-in hard plastic folding
cover now, and the keys and display are larger and easier to see.
The internal algorithm is the same.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 34+ messages in thread
* Returned mail
@ 1995-09-27 14:07 MAILER-DAEMON
0 siblings, 0 replies; 34+ messages in thread
From: MAILER-DAEMON @ 1995-09-27 14:07 UTC (permalink / raw)
Your mail could not be delivered because of the following reason:
----- Transcript of session follows -----
No matching or similar name in the people
database for 'greg.nenych'.
----- Unsent message follows -----
>From 9fans Wed Sep 27 09:06:54 0400 1995 remote from cse.psu.edu
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From: presotto@helix.research.att.com
To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 09:06:54 -0400
Subject: re: where is 'find'?
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du -a | grep
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>From cse.psu.edu!9fans-outgoing-owner Wed Sep 27 03:21:09 EDT 1995
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Message-Id: <199509270711.HAA02495@earth.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp>
To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu
Subject: where is 'find'?
X-Face: $Cx`H<mo[k@}`->4h}&#Ay65<'8JKnrNJ"m]<sl}[8usxY~+yrH/[F'>K0nX2>7@Da=n'V$
uF~ag)mR<x5qPXu~v+SBh}^sc;YOAlSJP&ErCnp=6j2jq|a~}q<Cw[!&z6N%s?fTn5Nf167W$/f#Qg
n*?o9{tYMn?|CLT%n%w;r9$f9Db"t~!HyLpZ]8HE9_{DM(+ghD
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Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 03:11:01 -0400
From: Kenji Okamoto <okamoto@earth.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp>
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Subject says enough, I expect.
Kenji
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 34+ messages in thread
* Returned mail
@ 1995-09-27 13:30 MAILER-DAEMON
0 siblings, 0 replies; 34+ messages in thread
From: MAILER-DAEMON @ 1995-09-27 13:30 UTC (permalink / raw)
Your mail could not be delivered because of the following reason:
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No matching or similar name in the people
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Your mail could not be delivered because of the following reason:
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No matching or similar name in the people
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Your mail could not be delivered because of the following reason:
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No matching or similar name in the people
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Your mail could not be delivered because of the following reason:
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No matching or similar name in the people
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----- Unsent message follows -----
>From 9fans Wed Sep 27 07:08:37 0400 1995 remote from cse.psu.edu
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Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 07:08:37 -0400
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Subject: Returned mail
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Your mail could not be delivered because of the following reason:
----- Transcript of session follows -----
No matching or similar name in the people
database for 'greg.nenych'.
----- Unsent message follows -----
>From 9fans Wed Sep 27 06:38:51 0400 1995 remote from cse.psu.edu
Received: from ncrgw1.UUCP (ncrgw1@localhost) by ncrhub7.attgis.com (8.7/8.7) with UUCP id HAA15704 for canada.attgis.com!greg.nenych; Wed, 27 Sep 1995 07:07:22 -0400 (EDT)
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Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 06:38:51 -0400
From: MAILER-DAEMON@ncrcan.canada.NCR.COM
Subject: Returned mail
To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu
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Your mail could not be delivered because of the following reason:
----- Transcript of session follows -----
No matching or similar name in the people
database for 'greg.nenych'.
----- Unsent message follows -----
>From 9fans Wed Sep 27 05:58:54 0400 1995 remote from cse.psu.edu
Received: from ncrgw1.UUCP (ncrgw1@localhost) by ncrhub7.attgis.com (8.7/8.7) with UUCP id GAA14620 for canada.attgis.com!greg.nenych; Wed, 27 Sep 1995 06:37:36 -0400 (EDT)
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Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 05:58:54 -0400
From: MAILER-DAEMON@ncrcan.canada.NCR.COM
Subject: Returned mail
To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu
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Your mail could not be delivered because of the following reason:
----- Transcript of session follows -----
No matching or similar name in the people
database for 'greg.nenych'.
----- Unsent message follows -----
>From 9fans Wed Sep 27 05:08:24 0400 1995 remote from cse.psu.edu
Received: from ncrgw1.UUCP (ncrgw1@localhost) by ncrhub7.attgis.com (8.7/8.7) with UUCP id FAA12768 for canada.attgis.com!greg.nenych; Wed, 27 Sep 1995 05:57:38 -0400 (EDT)
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Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 05:08:24 -0400
From: MAILER-DAEMON@ncrcan.canada.NCR.COM
Subject: Returned mail
To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu
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Your mail could not be delivered because of the following reason:
----- Transcript of session follows -----
No matching or similar name in the people
database for 'greg.nenych'.
----- Unsent message follows -----
>From 9fans Wed Sep 27 04:40:30 0400 1995 remote from cse.psu.edu
Received: from ncrgw1.UUCP (ncrgw1@localhost) by ncrhub7.attgis.com (8.7/8.7) with UUCP id FAA10459 for canada.attgis.com!greg.nenych; Wed, 27 Sep 1995 05:07:10 -0400 (EDT)
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Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 04:40:30 -0400
From: MAILER-DAEMON@ncrcan.canada.NCR.COM
Subject: Returned mail
To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu
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Your mail could not be delivered because of the following reason:
----- Transcript of session follows -----
No matching or similar name in the people
database for 'greg.nenych'.
----- Unsent message follows -----
>From 9fans Wed Sep 27 04:10:03 0400 1995 remote from cse.psu.edu
Received: from ncrgw1.UUCP (ncrgw1@localhost) by ncrhub7.attgis.com (8.7/8.7) with UUCP id EAA08899 for canada.attgis.com!greg.nenych; Wed, 27 Sep 1995 04:39:15 -0400 (EDT)
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From: MAILER-DAEMON@ncrcan.canada.NCR.COM
Subject: Returned mail
To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu
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Your mail could not be delivered because of the following reason:
----- Transcript of session follows -----
No matching or similar name in the people
database for 'greg.nenych'.
----- Unsent message follows -----
>From 9fans Wed Sep 27 03:27:07 0400 1995 remote from cse.psu.edu
Received: from ncrgw1.UUCP (ncrgw1@localhost) by ncrhub7.attgis.com (8.7/8.7) with UUCP id EAA06696 for canada.attgis.com!greg.nenych; Wed, 27 Sep 1995 04:08:44 -0400 (EDT)
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Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 03:27:07 -0400
From: MAILER-DAEMON@ncrcan.canada.NCR.COM
Subject: Returned mail
To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu
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Your mail could not be delivered because of the following reason:
----- Transcript of session follows -----
No matching or similar name in the people
database for 'greg.nenych'.
----- Unsent message follows -----
>From 9fans Wed Sep 27 03:11:01 0400 1995 remote from cse.psu.edu
Received: from ncrgw1.UUCP (ncrgw1@localhost) by ncrhub7.attgis.com (8.7/8.7) with UUCP id DAA03688 for canada.attgis.com!greg.nenych; Wed, 27 Sep 1995 03:25:48 -0400 (EDT)
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Message-Id: <199509270711.HAA02495@earth.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp>
To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu
Subject: where is 'find'?
X-Face: $Cx`H<mo[k@}`->4h}&#Ay65<'8JKnrNJ"m]<sl}[8usxY~+yrH/[F'>K0nX2>7@Da=n'V$
uF~ag)mR<x5qPXu~v+SBh}^sc;YOAlSJP&ErCnp=6j2jq|a~}q<Cw[!&z6N%s?fTn5Nf167W$/f#Qg
n*?o9{tYMn?|CLT%n%w;r9$f9Db"t~!HyLpZ]8HE9_{DM(+ghD
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Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 03:11:01 -0400
From: Kenji Okamoto <okamoto@earth.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp>
Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu
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Subject says enough, I expect.
Kenji
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 34+ messages in thread
* Returned mail
@ 1995-09-27 12:41 MAILER-DAEMON
0 siblings, 0 replies; 34+ messages in thread
From: MAILER-DAEMON @ 1995-09-27 12:41 UTC (permalink / raw)
Your mail could not be delivered because of the following reason:
----- Transcript of session follows -----
No matching or similar name in the people
database for 'greg.nenych'.
----- Unsent message follows -----
>From 9fans Wed Sep 27 08:09:13 0400 1995 remote from cse.psu.edu
Received: from ncrgw1.UUCP (ncrgw1@localhost) by ncrhub7.attgis.com (8.7/8.7) with UUCP id IAA21824 for canada.attgis.com!greg.nenych; Wed, 27 Sep 1995 08:39:47 -0400 (EDT)
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Subject: Returned mail
To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu
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Your mail could not be delivered because of the following reason:
----- Transcript of session follows -----
No matching or similar name in the people
database for 'greg.nenych'.
----- Unsent message follows -----
>From 9fans Wed Sep 27 07:39:49 0400 1995 remote from cse.psu.edu
Received: from ncrgw1.UUCP (ncrgw1@localhost) by ncrhub7.attgis.com (8.7/8.7) with UUCP id IAA19531 for canada.attgis.com!greg.nenych; Wed, 27 Sep 1995 08:07:58 -0400 (EDT)
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Subject: Returned mail
To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu
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Your mail could not be delivered because of the following reason:
----- Transcript of session follows -----
No matching or similar name in the people
database for 'greg.nenych'.
----- Unsent message follows -----
>From 9fans Wed Sep 27 07:08:37 0400 1995 remote from cse.psu.edu
Received: from ncrgw1.UUCP (ncrgw1@localhost) by ncrhub7.attgis.com (8.7/8.7) with UUCP id HAA17314 for canada.attgis.com!greg.nenych; Wed, 27 Sep 1995 07:38:32 -0400 (EDT)
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Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 07:08:37 -0400
From: MAILER-DAEMON@ncrcan.canada.NCR.COM
Subject: Returned mail
To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu
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Your mail could not be delivered because of the following reason:
----- Transcript of session follows -----
No matching or similar name in the people
database for 'greg.nenych'.
----- Unsent message follows -----
>From 9fans Wed Sep 27 06:38:51 0400 1995 remote from cse.psu.edu
Received: from ncrgw1.UUCP (ncrgw1@localhost) by ncrhub7.attgis.com (8.7/8.7) with UUCP id HAA15704 for canada.attgis.com!greg.nenych; Wed, 27 Sep 1995 07:07:22 -0400 (EDT)
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Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 06:38:51 -0400
From: MAILER-DAEMON@ncrcan.canada.NCR.COM
Subject: Returned mail
To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu
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Your mail could not be delivered because of the following reason:
----- Transcript of session follows -----
No matching or similar name in the people
database for 'greg.nenych'.
----- Unsent message follows -----
>From 9fans Wed Sep 27 05:58:54 0400 1995 remote from cse.psu.edu
Received: from ncrgw1.UUCP (ncrgw1@localhost) by ncrhub7.attgis.com (8.7/8.7) with UUCP id GAA14620 for canada.attgis.com!greg.nenych; Wed, 27 Sep 1995 06:37:36 -0400 (EDT)
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Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 05:58:54 -0400
From: MAILER-DAEMON@ncrcan.canada.NCR.COM
Subject: Returned mail
To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu
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Your mail could not be delivered because of the following reason:
----- Transcript of session follows -----
No matching or similar name in the people
database for 'greg.nenych'.
----- Unsent message follows -----
>From 9fans Wed Sep 27 05:08:24 0400 1995 remote from cse.psu.edu
Received: from ncrgw1.UUCP (ncrgw1@localhost) by ncrhub7.attgis.com (8.7/8.7) with UUCP id FAA12768 for canada.attgis.com!greg.nenych; Wed, 27 Sep 1995 05:57:38 -0400 (EDT)
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Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 05:08:24 -0400
From: MAILER-DAEMON@ncrcan.canada.NCR.COM
Subject: Returned mail
To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu
Message-ID: <9509270508.aa29928@ncrhub1.ATTGIS.COM>
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Your mail could not be delivered because of the following reason:
----- Transcript of session follows -----
No matching or similar name in the people
database for 'greg.nenych'.
----- Unsent message follows -----
>From 9fans Wed Sep 27 04:40:30 0400 1995 remote from cse.psu.edu
Received: from ncrgw1.UUCP (ncrgw1@localhost) by ncrhub7.attgis.com (8.7/8.7) with UUCP id FAA10459 for canada.attgis.com!greg.nenych; Wed, 27 Sep 1995 05:07:10 -0400 (EDT)
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Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 04:40:30 -0400
From: MAILER-DAEMON@ncrcan.canada.NCR.COM
Subject: Returned mail
To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu
Message-ID: <9509270440.aa29428@ncrhub1.ATTGIS.COM>
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Your mail could not be delivered because of the following reason:
----- Transcript of session follows -----
No matching or similar name in the people
database for 'greg.nenych'.
----- Unsent message follows -----
>From 9fans Wed Sep 27 04:10:03 0400 1995 remote from cse.psu.edu
Received: from ncrgw1.UUCP (ncrgw1@localhost) by ncrhub7.attgis.com (8.7/8.7) with UUCP id EAA08899 for canada.attgis.com!greg.nenych; Wed, 27 Sep 1995 04:39:15 -0400 (EDT)
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Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 04:10:03 -0400
From: MAILER-DAEMON@ncrcan.canada.NCR.COM
Subject: Returned mail
To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu
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Your mail could not be delivered because of the following reason:
----- Transcript of session follows -----
No matching or similar name in the people
database for 'greg.nenych'.
----- Unsent message follows -----
>From 9fans Wed Sep 27 03:27:07 0400 1995 remote from cse.psu.edu
Received: from ncrgw1.UUCP (ncrgw1@localhost) by ncrhub7.attgis.com (8.7/8.7) with UUCP id EAA06696 for canada.attgis.com!greg.nenych; Wed, 27 Sep 1995 04:08:44 -0400 (EDT)
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Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 03:27:07 -0400
From: MAILER-DAEMON@ncrcan.canada.NCR.COM
Subject: Returned mail
To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu
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Your mail could not be delivered because of the following reason:
----- Transcript of session follows -----
No matching or similar name in the people
database for 'greg.nenych'.
----- Unsent message follows -----
>From 9fans Wed Sep 27 03:11:01 0400 1995 remote from cse.psu.edu
Received: from ncrgw1.UUCP (ncrgw1@localhost) by ncrhub7.attgis.com (8.7/8.7) with UUCP id DAA03688 for canada.attgis.com!greg.nenych; Wed, 27 Sep 1995 03:25:48 -0400 (EDT)
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Message-Id: <199509270711.HAA02495@earth.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp>
To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu
Subject: where is 'find'?
X-Face: $Cx`H<mo[k@}`->4h}&#Ay65<'8JKnrNJ"m]<sl}[8usxY~+yrH/[F'>K0nX2>7@Da=n'V$
uF~ag)mR<x5qPXu~v+SBh}^sc;YOAlSJP&ErCnp=6j2jq|a~}q<Cw[!&z6N%s?fTn5Nf167W$/f#Qg
n*?o9{tYMn?|CLT%n%w;r9$f9Db"t~!HyLpZ]8HE9_{DM(+ghD
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 03:11:01 -0400
From: Kenji Okamoto <okamoto@earth.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp>
Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu
Subject says enough, I expect.
Kenji
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 34+ messages in thread
* Returned mail
@ 1995-09-27 12:09 MAILER-DAEMON
0 siblings, 0 replies; 34+ messages in thread
From: MAILER-DAEMON @ 1995-09-27 12:09 UTC (permalink / raw)
Your mail could not be delivered because of the following reason:
----- Transcript of session follows -----
No matching or similar name in the people
database for 'greg.nenych'.
----- Unsent message follows -----
>From 9fans Wed Sep 27 07:39:49 0400 1995 remote from cse.psu.edu
Received: from ncrgw1.UUCP (ncrgw1@localhost) by ncrhub7.attgis.com (8.7/8.7) with UUCP id IAA19531 for canada.attgis.com!greg.nenych; Wed, 27 Sep 1995 08:07:58 -0400 (EDT)
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Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 07:39:49 -0400
From: MAILER-DAEMON@ncrcan.canada.NCR.COM
Subject: Returned mail
To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu
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Your mail could not be delivered because of the following reason:
----- Transcript of session follows -----
No matching or similar name in the people
database for 'greg.nenych'.
----- Unsent message follows -----
>From 9fans Wed Sep 27 07:08:37 0400 1995 remote from cse.psu.edu
Received: from ncrgw1.UUCP (ncrgw1@localhost) by ncrhub7.attgis.com (8.7/8.7) with UUCP id HAA17314 for canada.attgis.com!greg.nenych; Wed, 27 Sep 1995 07:38:32 -0400 (EDT)
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Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 07:08:37 -0400
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Subject: Returned mail
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Your mail could not be delivered because of the following reason:
----- Transcript of session follows -----
No matching or similar name in the people
database for 'greg.nenych'.
----- Unsent message follows -----
>From 9fans Wed Sep 27 06:38:51 0400 1995 remote from cse.psu.edu
Received: from ncrgw1.UUCP (ncrgw1@localhost) by ncrhub7.attgis.com (8.7/8.7) with UUCP id HAA15704 for canada.attgis.com!greg.nenych; Wed, 27 Sep 1995 07:07:22 -0400 (EDT)
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Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 06:38:51 -0400
From: MAILER-DAEMON@ncrcan.canada.NCR.COM
Subject: Returned mail
To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu
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Your mail could not be delivered because of the following reason:
----- Transcript of session follows -----
No matching or similar name in the people
database for 'greg.nenych'.
----- Unsent message follows -----
>From 9fans Wed Sep 27 05:58:54 0400 1995 remote from cse.psu.edu
Received: from ncrgw1.UUCP (ncrgw1@localhost) by ncrhub7.attgis.com (8.7/8.7) with UUCP id GAA14620 for canada.attgis.com!greg.nenych; Wed, 27 Sep 1995 06:37:36 -0400 (EDT)
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Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 05:58:54 -0400
From: MAILER-DAEMON@ncrcan.canada.NCR.COM
Subject: Returned mail
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Your mail could not be delivered because of the following reason:
----- Transcript of session follows -----
No matching or similar name in the people
database for 'greg.nenych'.
----- Unsent message follows -----
>From 9fans Wed Sep 27 05:08:24 0400 1995 remote from cse.psu.edu
Received: from ncrgw1.UUCP (ncrgw1@localhost) by ncrhub7.attgis.com (8.7/8.7) with UUCP id FAA12768 for canada.attgis.com!greg.nenych; Wed, 27 Sep 1995 05:57:38 -0400 (EDT)
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Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 05:08:24 -0400
From: MAILER-DAEMON@ncrcan.canada.NCR.COM
Subject: Returned mail
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Your mail could not be delivered because of the following reason:
----- Transcript of session follows -----
No matching or similar name in the people
database for 'greg.nenych'.
----- Unsent message follows -----
>From 9fans Wed Sep 27 04:40:30 0400 1995 remote from cse.psu.edu
Received: from ncrgw1.UUCP (ncrgw1@localhost) by ncrhub7.attgis.com (8.7/8.7) with UUCP id FAA10459 for canada.attgis.com!greg.nenych; Wed, 27 Sep 1995 05:07:10 -0400 (EDT)
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Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 04:40:30 -0400
From: MAILER-DAEMON@ncrcan.canada.NCR.COM
Subject: Returned mail
To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu
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Your mail could not be delivered because of the following reason:
----- Transcript of session follows -----
No matching or similar name in the people
database for 'greg.nenych'.
----- Unsent message follows -----
>From 9fans Wed Sep 27 04:10:03 0400 1995 remote from cse.psu.edu
Received: from ncrgw1.UUCP (ncrgw1@localhost) by ncrhub7.attgis.com (8.7/8.7) with UUCP id EAA08899 for canada.attgis.com!greg.nenych; Wed, 27 Sep 1995 04:39:15 -0400 (EDT)
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Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 04:10:03 -0400
From: MAILER-DAEMON@ncrcan.canada.NCR.COM
Subject: Returned mail
To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu
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Your mail could not be delivered because of the following reason:
----- Transcript of session follows -----
No matching or similar name in the people
database for 'greg.nenych'.
----- Unsent message follows -----
>From 9fans Wed Sep 27 03:27:07 0400 1995 remote from cse.psu.edu
Received: from ncrgw1.UUCP (ncrgw1@localhost) by ncrhub7.attgis.com (8.7/8.7) with UUCP id EAA06696 for canada.attgis.com!greg.nenych; Wed, 27 Sep 1995 04:08:44 -0400 (EDT)
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Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 03:27:07 -0400
From: MAILER-DAEMON@ncrcan.canada.NCR.COM
Subject: Returned mail
To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu
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Your mail could not be delivered because of the following reason:
----- Transcript of session follows -----
No matching or similar name in the people
database for 'greg.nenych'.
----- Unsent message follows -----
>From 9fans Wed Sep 27 03:11:01 0400 1995 remote from cse.psu.edu
Received: from ncrgw1.UUCP (ncrgw1@localhost) by ncrhub7.attgis.com (8.7/8.7) with UUCP id DAA03688 for canada.attgis.com!greg.nenych; Wed, 27 Sep 1995 03:25:48 -0400 (EDT)
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Message-Id: <199509270711.HAA02495@earth.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp>
To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu
Subject: where is 'find'?
X-Face: $Cx`H<mo[k@}`->4h}&#Ay65<'8JKnrNJ"m]<sl}[8usxY~+yrH/[F'>K0nX2>7@Da=n'V$
uF~ag)mR<x5qPXu~v+SBh}^sc;YOAlSJP&ErCnp=6j2jq|a~}q<Cw[!&z6N%s?fTn5Nf167W$/f#Qg
n*?o9{tYMn?|CLT%n%w;r9$f9Db"t~!HyLpZ]8HE9_{DM(+ghD
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Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 03:11:01 -0400
From: Kenji Okamoto <okamoto@earth.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp>
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Subject says enough, I expect.
Kenji
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 34+ messages in thread
* Returned mail
@ 1995-09-27 11:39 MAILER-DAEMON
0 siblings, 0 replies; 34+ messages in thread
From: MAILER-DAEMON @ 1995-09-27 11:39 UTC (permalink / raw)
Your mail could not be delivered because of the following reason:
----- Transcript of session follows -----
No matching or similar name in the people
database for 'greg.nenych'.
----- Unsent message follows -----
>From 9fans Wed Sep 27 07:08:37 0400 1995 remote from cse.psu.edu
Received: from ncrgw1.UUCP (ncrgw1@localhost) by ncrhub7.attgis.com (8.7/8.7) with UUCP id HAA17314 for canada.attgis.com!greg.nenych; Wed, 27 Sep 1995 07:38:32 -0400 (EDT)
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Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 07:08:37 -0400
From: MAILER-DAEMON@ncrcan.canada.NCR.COM
Subject: Returned mail
To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu
Message-ID: <9509270708.aa02791@ncrhub1.ATTGIS.COM>
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Your mail could not be delivered because of the following reason:
----- Transcript of session follows -----
No matching or similar name in the people
database for 'greg.nenych'.
----- Unsent message follows -----
>From 9fans Wed Sep 27 06:38:51 0400 1995 remote from cse.psu.edu
Received: from ncrgw1.UUCP (ncrgw1@localhost) by ncrhub7.attgis.com (8.7/8.7) with UUCP id HAA15704 for canada.attgis.com!greg.nenych; Wed, 27 Sep 1995 07:07:22 -0400 (EDT)
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Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 06:38:51 -0400
From: MAILER-DAEMON@ncrcan.canada.NCR.COM
Subject: Returned mail
To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu
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Your mail could not be delivered because of the following reason:
----- Transcript of session follows -----
No matching or similar name in the people
database for 'greg.nenych'.
----- Unsent message follows -----
>From 9fans Wed Sep 27 05:58:54 0400 1995 remote from cse.psu.edu
Received: from ncrgw1.UUCP (ncrgw1@localhost) by ncrhub7.attgis.com (8.7/8.7) with UUCP id GAA14620 for canada.attgis.com!greg.nenych; Wed, 27 Sep 1995 06:37:36 -0400 (EDT)
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Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 05:58:54 -0400
From: MAILER-DAEMON@ncrcan.canada.NCR.COM
Subject: Returned mail
To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu
Message-ID: <9509270558.ac01068@ncrhub1.ATTGIS.COM>
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Your mail could not be delivered because of the following reason:
----- Transcript of session follows -----
No matching or similar name in the people
database for 'greg.nenych'.
----- Unsent message follows -----
>From 9fans Wed Sep 27 05:08:24 0400 1995 remote from cse.psu.edu
Received: from ncrgw1.UUCP (ncrgw1@localhost) by ncrhub7.attgis.com (8.7/8.7) with UUCP id FAA12768 for canada.attgis.com!greg.nenych; Wed, 27 Sep 1995 05:57:38 -0400 (EDT)
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Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 05:08:24 -0400
From: MAILER-DAEMON@ncrcan.canada.NCR.COM
Subject: Returned mail
To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu
Message-ID: <9509270508.aa29928@ncrhub1.ATTGIS.COM>
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Your mail could not be delivered because of the following reason:
----- Transcript of session follows -----
No matching or similar name in the people
database for 'greg.nenych'.
----- Unsent message follows -----
>From 9fans Wed Sep 27 04:40:30 0400 1995 remote from cse.psu.edu
Received: from ncrgw1.UUCP (ncrgw1@localhost) by ncrhub7.attgis.com (8.7/8.7) with UUCP id FAA10459 for canada.attgis.com!greg.nenych; Wed, 27 Sep 1995 05:07:10 -0400 (EDT)
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Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 04:40:30 -0400
From: MAILER-DAEMON@ncrcan.canada.NCR.COM
Subject: Returned mail
To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu
Message-ID: <9509270440.aa29428@ncrhub1.ATTGIS.COM>
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Your mail could not be delivered because of the following reason:
----- Transcript of session follows -----
No matching or similar name in the people
database for 'greg.nenych'.
----- Unsent message follows -----
>From 9fans Wed Sep 27 04:10:03 0400 1995 remote from cse.psu.edu
Received: from ncrgw1.UUCP (ncrgw1@localhost) by ncrhub7.attgis.com (8.7/8.7) with UUCP id EAA08899 for canada.attgis.com!greg.nenych; Wed, 27 Sep 1995 04:39:15 -0400 (EDT)
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Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 04:10:03 -0400
From: MAILER-DAEMON@ncrcan.canada.NCR.COM
Subject: Returned mail
To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu
Message-ID: <9509270410.aa28865@ncrhub1.ATTGIS.COM>
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Your mail could not be delivered because of the following reason:
----- Transcript of session follows -----
No matching or similar name in the people
database for 'greg.nenych'.
----- Unsent message follows -----
>From 9fans Wed Sep 27 03:27:07 0400 1995 remote from cse.psu.edu
Received: from ncrgw1.UUCP (ncrgw1@localhost) by ncrhub7.attgis.com (8.7/8.7) with UUCP id EAA06696 for canada.attgis.com!greg.nenych; Wed, 27 Sep 1995 04:08:44 -0400 (EDT)
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Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 03:27:07 -0400
From: MAILER-DAEMON@ncrcan.canada.NCR.COM
Subject: Returned mail
To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu
Message-ID: <9509270327.ab27967@ncrhub1.ATTGIS.COM>
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Your mail could not be delivered because of the following reason:
----- Transcript of session follows -----
No matching or similar name in the people
database for 'greg.nenych'.
----- Unsent message follows -----
>From 9fans Wed Sep 27 03:11:01 0400 1995 remote from cse.psu.edu
Received: from ncrgw1.UUCP (ncrgw1@localhost) by ncrhub7.attgis.com (8.7/8.7) with UUCP id DAA03688 for canada.attgis.com!greg.nenych; Wed, 27 Sep 1995 03:25:48 -0400 (EDT)
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Message-Id: <199509270711.HAA02495@earth.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp>
To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu
Subject: where is 'find'?
X-Face: $Cx`H<mo[k@}`->4h}&#Ay65<'8JKnrNJ"m]<sl}[8usxY~+yrH/[F'>K0nX2>7@Da=n'V$
uF~ag)mR<x5qPXu~v+SBh}^sc;YOAlSJP&ErCnp=6j2jq|a~}q<Cw[!&z6N%s?fTn5Nf167W$/f#Qg
n*?o9{tYMn?|CLT%n%w;r9$f9Db"t~!HyLpZ]8HE9_{DM(+ghD
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Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 03:11:01 -0400
From: Kenji Okamoto <okamoto@earth.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp>
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Subject says enough, I expect.
Kenji
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 34+ messages in thread
* Returned mail
@ 1995-09-27 11:08 MAILER-DAEMON
0 siblings, 0 replies; 34+ messages in thread
From: MAILER-DAEMON @ 1995-09-27 11:08 UTC (permalink / raw)
Your mail could not be delivered because of the following reason:
----- Transcript of session follows -----
No matching or similar name in the people
database for 'greg.nenych'.
----- Unsent message follows -----
>From 9fans Wed Sep 27 06:38:51 0400 1995 remote from cse.psu.edu
Received: from ncrgw1.UUCP (ncrgw1@localhost) by ncrhub7.attgis.com (8.7/8.7) with UUCP id HAA15704 for canada.attgis.com!greg.nenych; Wed, 27 Sep 1995 07:07:22 -0400 (EDT)
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Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 06:38:51 -0400
From: MAILER-DAEMON@ncrcan.canada.NCR.COM
Subject: Returned mail
To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu
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Your mail could not be delivered because of the following reason:
----- Transcript of session follows -----
No matching or similar name in the people
database for 'greg.nenych'.
----- Unsent message follows -----
>From 9fans Wed Sep 27 05:58:54 0400 1995 remote from cse.psu.edu
Received: from ncrgw1.UUCP (ncrgw1@localhost) by ncrhub7.attgis.com (8.7/8.7) with UUCP id GAA14620 for canada.attgis.com!greg.nenych; Wed, 27 Sep 1995 06:37:36 -0400 (EDT)
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Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 05:58:54 -0400
From: MAILER-DAEMON@ncrcan.canada.NCR.COM
Subject: Returned mail
To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu
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Your mail could not be delivered because of the following reason:
----- Transcript of session follows -----
No matching or similar name in the people
database for 'greg.nenych'.
----- Unsent message follows -----
>From 9fans Wed Sep 27 05:08:24 0400 1995 remote from cse.psu.edu
Received: from ncrgw1.UUCP (ncrgw1@localhost) by ncrhub7.attgis.com (8.7/8.7) with UUCP id FAA12768 for canada.attgis.com!greg.nenych; Wed, 27 Sep 1995 05:57:38 -0400 (EDT)
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Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 05:08:24 -0400
From: MAILER-DAEMON@ncrcan.canada.NCR.COM
Subject: Returned mail
To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu
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Your mail could not be delivered because of the following reason:
----- Transcript of session follows -----
No matching or similar name in the people
database for 'greg.nenych'.
----- Unsent message follows -----
>From 9fans Wed Sep 27 04:40:30 0400 1995 remote from cse.psu.edu
Received: from ncrgw1.UUCP (ncrgw1@localhost) by ncrhub7.attgis.com (8.7/8.7) with UUCP id FAA10459 for canada.attgis.com!greg.nenych; Wed, 27 Sep 1995 05:07:10 -0400 (EDT)
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Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 04:40:30 -0400
From: MAILER-DAEMON@ncrcan.canada.NCR.COM
Subject: Returned mail
To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu
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Your mail could not be delivered because of the following reason:
----- Transcript of session follows -----
No matching or similar name in the people
database for 'greg.nenych'.
----- Unsent message follows -----
>From 9fans Wed Sep 27 04:10:03 0400 1995 remote from cse.psu.edu
Received: from ncrgw1.UUCP (ncrgw1@localhost) by ncrhub7.attgis.com (8.7/8.7) with UUCP id EAA08899 for canada.attgis.com!greg.nenych; Wed, 27 Sep 1995 04:39:15 -0400 (EDT)
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Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 04:10:03 -0400
From: MAILER-DAEMON@ncrcan.canada.NCR.COM
Subject: Returned mail
To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu
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Your mail could not be delivered because of the following reason:
----- Transcript of session follows -----
No matching or similar name in the people
database for 'greg.nenych'.
----- Unsent message follows -----
>From 9fans Wed Sep 27 03:27:07 0400 1995 remote from cse.psu.edu
Received: from ncrgw1.UUCP (ncrgw1@localhost) by ncrhub7.attgis.com (8.7/8.7) with UUCP id EAA06696 for canada.attgis.com!greg.nenych; Wed, 27 Sep 1995 04:08:44 -0400 (EDT)
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Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 03:27:07 -0400
From: MAILER-DAEMON@ncrcan.canada.NCR.COM
Subject: Returned mail
To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu
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Your mail could not be delivered because of the following reason:
----- Transcript of session follows -----
No matching or similar name in the people
database for 'greg.nenych'.
----- Unsent message follows -----
>From 9fans Wed Sep 27 03:11:01 0400 1995 remote from cse.psu.edu
Received: from ncrgw1.UUCP (ncrgw1@localhost) by ncrhub7.attgis.com (8.7/8.7) with UUCP id DAA03688 for canada.attgis.com!greg.nenych; Wed, 27 Sep 1995 03:25:48 -0400 (EDT)
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Message-Id: <199509270711.HAA02495@earth.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp>
To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu
Subject: where is 'find'?
X-Face: $Cx`H<mo[k@}`->4h}&#Ay65<'8JKnrNJ"m]<sl}[8usxY~+yrH/[F'>K0nX2>7@Da=n'V$
uF~ag)mR<x5qPXu~v+SBh}^sc;YOAlSJP&ErCnp=6j2jq|a~}q<Cw[!&z6N%s?fTn5Nf167W$/f#Qg
n*?o9{tYMn?|CLT%n%w;r9$f9Db"t~!HyLpZ]8HE9_{DM(+ghD
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Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 03:11:01 -0400
From: Kenji Okamoto <okamoto@earth.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp>
Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu
Subject says enough, I expect.
Kenji
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 34+ messages in thread
* Returned mail
@ 1995-09-27 10:38 MAILER-DAEMON
0 siblings, 0 replies; 34+ messages in thread
From: MAILER-DAEMON @ 1995-09-27 10:38 UTC (permalink / raw)
Your mail could not be delivered because of the following reason:
----- Transcript of session follows -----
No matching or similar name in the people
database for 'greg.nenych'.
----- Unsent message follows -----
>From 9fans Wed Sep 27 05:58:54 0400 1995 remote from cse.psu.edu
Received: from ncrgw1.UUCP (ncrgw1@localhost) by ncrhub7.attgis.com (8.7/8.7) with UUCP id GAA14620 for canada.attgis.com!greg.nenych; Wed, 27 Sep 1995 06:37:36 -0400 (EDT)
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Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 05:58:54 -0400
From: MAILER-DAEMON@ncrcan.canada.NCR.COM
Subject: Returned mail
To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu
Message-ID: <9509270558.ac01068@ncrhub1.ATTGIS.COM>
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Your mail could not be delivered because of the following reason:
----- Transcript of session follows -----
No matching or similar name in the people
database for 'greg.nenych'.
----- Unsent message follows -----
>From 9fans Wed Sep 27 05:08:24 0400 1995 remote from cse.psu.edu
Received: from ncrgw1.UUCP (ncrgw1@localhost) by ncrhub7.attgis.com (8.7/8.7) with UUCP id FAA12768 for canada.attgis.com!greg.nenych; Wed, 27 Sep 1995 05:57:38 -0400 (EDT)
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Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 05:08:24 -0400
From: MAILER-DAEMON@ncrcan.canada.NCR.COM
Subject: Returned mail
To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu
Message-ID: <9509270508.aa29928@ncrhub1.ATTGIS.COM>
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Your mail could not be delivered because of the following reason:
----- Transcript of session follows -----
No matching or similar name in the people
database for 'greg.nenych'.
----- Unsent message follows -----
>From 9fans Wed Sep 27 04:40:30 0400 1995 remote from cse.psu.edu
Received: from ncrgw1.UUCP (ncrgw1@localhost) by ncrhub7.attgis.com (8.7/8.7) with UUCP id FAA10459 for canada.attgis.com!greg.nenych; Wed, 27 Sep 1995 05:07:10 -0400 (EDT)
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Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 04:40:30 -0400
From: MAILER-DAEMON@ncrcan.canada.NCR.COM
Subject: Returned mail
To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu
Message-ID: <9509270440.aa29428@ncrhub1.ATTGIS.COM>
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Your mail could not be delivered because of the following reason:
----- Transcript of session follows -----
No matching or similar name in the people
database for 'greg.nenych'.
----- Unsent message follows -----
>From 9fans Wed Sep 27 04:10:03 0400 1995 remote from cse.psu.edu
Received: from ncrgw1.UUCP (ncrgw1@localhost) by ncrhub7.attgis.com (8.7/8.7) with UUCP id EAA08899 for canada.attgis.com!greg.nenych; Wed, 27 Sep 1995 04:39:15 -0400 (EDT)
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Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 04:10:03 -0400
From: MAILER-DAEMON@ncrcan.canada.NCR.COM
Subject: Returned mail
To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu
Message-ID: <9509270410.aa28865@ncrhub1.ATTGIS.COM>
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Your mail could not be delivered because of the following reason:
----- Transcript of session follows -----
No matching or similar name in the people
database for 'greg.nenych'.
----- Unsent message follows -----
>From 9fans Wed Sep 27 03:27:07 0400 1995 remote from cse.psu.edu
Received: from ncrgw1.UUCP (ncrgw1@localhost) by ncrhub7.attgis.com (8.7/8.7) with UUCP id EAA06696 for canada.attgis.com!greg.nenych; Wed, 27 Sep 1995 04:08:44 -0400 (EDT)
Received: by ncrgw1.ATTGIS.COM; 27 Sep 95 04:04:24 EDT
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Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 03:27:07 -0400
From: MAILER-DAEMON@ncrcan.canada.NCR.COM
Subject: Returned mail
To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu
Message-ID: <9509270327.ab27967@ncrhub1.ATTGIS.COM>
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Your mail could not be delivered because of the following reason:
----- Transcript of session follows -----
No matching or similar name in the people
database for 'greg.nenych'.
----- Unsent message follows -----
>From 9fans Wed Sep 27 03:11:01 0400 1995 remote from cse.psu.edu
Received: from ncrgw1.UUCP (ncrgw1@localhost) by ncrhub7.attgis.com (8.7/8.7) with UUCP id DAA03688 for canada.attgis.com!greg.nenych; Wed, 27 Sep 1995 03:25:48 -0400 (EDT)
Received: by ncrgw1.ATTGIS.COM; 27 Sep 95 03:23:23 EDT
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Message-Id: <199509270711.HAA02495@earth.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp>
To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu
Subject: where is 'find'?
X-Face: $Cx`H<mo[k@}`->4h}&#Ay65<'8JKnrNJ"m]<sl}[8usxY~+yrH/[F'>K0nX2>7@Da=n'V$
uF~ag)mR<x5qPXu~v+SBh}^sc;YOAlSJP&ErCnp=6j2jq|a~}q<Cw[!&z6N%s?fTn5Nf167W$/f#Qg
n*?o9{tYMn?|CLT%n%w;r9$f9Db"t~!HyLpZ]8HE9_{DM(+ghD
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 03:11:01 -0400
From: Kenji Okamoto <okamoto@earth.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp>
Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu
Subject says enough, I expect.
Kenji
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 34+ messages in thread
* Returned mail
@ 1995-09-27 9:58 MAILER-DAEMON
0 siblings, 0 replies; 34+ messages in thread
From: MAILER-DAEMON @ 1995-09-27 9:58 UTC (permalink / raw)
Your mail could not be delivered because of the following reason:
----- Transcript of session follows -----
No matching or similar name in the people
database for 'greg.nenych'.
----- Unsent message follows -----
>From 9fans Wed Sep 27 05:08:24 0400 1995 remote from cse.psu.edu
Received: from ncrgw1.UUCP (ncrgw1@localhost) by ncrhub7.attgis.com (8.7/8.7) with UUCP id FAA12768 for canada.attgis.com!greg.nenych; Wed, 27 Sep 1995 05:57:38 -0400 (EDT)
Received: by ncrgw1.ATTGIS.COM; 27 Sep 95 05:57:02 EDT
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Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 05:08:24 -0400
From: MAILER-DAEMON@ncrcan.canada.NCR.COM
Subject: Returned mail
To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu
Message-ID: <9509270508.aa29928@ncrhub1.ATTGIS.COM>
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Your mail could not be delivered because of the following reason:
----- Transcript of session follows -----
No matching or similar name in the people
database for 'greg.nenych'.
----- Unsent message follows -----
>From 9fans Wed Sep 27 04:40:30 0400 1995 remote from cse.psu.edu
Received: from ncrgw1.UUCP (ncrgw1@localhost) by ncrhub7.attgis.com (8.7/8.7) with UUCP id FAA10459 for canada.attgis.com!greg.nenych; Wed, 27 Sep 1995 05:07:10 -0400 (EDT)
Received: by ncrgw1.ATTGIS.COM; 27 Sep 95 05:06:42 EDT
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Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 04:40:30 -0400
From: MAILER-DAEMON@ncrcan.canada.NCR.COM
Subject: Returned mail
To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu
Message-ID: <9509270440.aa29428@ncrhub1.ATTGIS.COM>
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Your mail could not be delivered because of the following reason:
----- Transcript of session follows -----
No matching or similar name in the people
database for 'greg.nenych'.
----- Unsent message follows -----
>From 9fans Wed Sep 27 04:10:03 0400 1995 remote from cse.psu.edu
Received: from ncrgw1.UUCP (ncrgw1@localhost) by ncrhub7.attgis.com (8.7/8.7) with UUCP id EAA08899 for canada.attgis.com!greg.nenych; Wed, 27 Sep 1995 04:39:15 -0400 (EDT)
Received: by ncrgw1.ATTGIS.COM; 27 Sep 95 04:37:34 EDT
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Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 04:10:03 -0400
From: MAILER-DAEMON@ncrcan.canada.NCR.COM
Subject: Returned mail
To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu
Message-ID: <9509270410.aa28865@ncrhub1.ATTGIS.COM>
Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu
Your mail could not be delivered because of the following reason:
----- Transcript of session follows -----
No matching or similar name in the people
database for 'greg.nenych'.
----- Unsent message follows -----
>From 9fans Wed Sep 27 03:27:07 0400 1995 remote from cse.psu.edu
Received: from ncrgw1.UUCP (ncrgw1@localhost) by ncrhub7.attgis.com (8.7/8.7) with UUCP id EAA06696 for canada.attgis.com!greg.nenych; Wed, 27 Sep 1995 04:08:44 -0400 (EDT)
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Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 03:27:07 -0400
From: MAILER-DAEMON@ncrcan.canada.NCR.COM
Subject: Returned mail
To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu
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Your mail could not be delivered because of the following reason:
----- Transcript of session follows -----
No matching or similar name in the people
database for 'greg.nenych'.
----- Unsent message follows -----
>From 9fans Wed Sep 27 03:11:01 0400 1995 remote from cse.psu.edu
Received: from ncrgw1.UUCP (ncrgw1@localhost) by ncrhub7.attgis.com (8.7/8.7) with UUCP id DAA03688 for canada.attgis.com!greg.nenych; Wed, 27 Sep 1995 03:25:48 -0400 (EDT)
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Message-Id: <199509270711.HAA02495@earth.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp>
To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu
Subject: where is 'find'?
X-Face: $Cx`H<mo[k@}`->4h}&#Ay65<'8JKnrNJ"m]<sl}[8usxY~+yrH/[F'>K0nX2>7@Da=n'V$
uF~ag)mR<x5qPXu~v+SBh}^sc;YOAlSJP&ErCnp=6j2jq|a~}q<Cw[!&z6N%s?fTn5Nf167W$/f#Qg
n*?o9{tYMn?|CLT%n%w;r9$f9Db"t~!HyLpZ]8HE9_{DM(+ghD
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Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 03:11:01 -0400
From: Kenji Okamoto <okamoto@earth.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp>
Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu
Subject says enough, I expect.
Kenji
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 34+ messages in thread
* Returned mail
@ 1995-09-27 9:08 MAILER-DAEMON
0 siblings, 0 replies; 34+ messages in thread
From: MAILER-DAEMON @ 1995-09-27 9:08 UTC (permalink / raw)
Your mail could not be delivered because of the following reason:
----- Transcript of session follows -----
No matching or similar name in the people
database for 'greg.nenych'.
----- Unsent message follows -----
>From 9fans Wed Sep 27 04:40:30 0400 1995 remote from cse.psu.edu
Received: from ncrgw1.UUCP (ncrgw1@localhost) by ncrhub7.attgis.com (8.7/8.7) with UUCP id FAA10459 for canada.attgis.com!greg.nenych; Wed, 27 Sep 1995 05:07:10 -0400 (EDT)
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Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 04:40:30 -0400
From: MAILER-DAEMON@ncrcan.canada.NCR.COM
Subject: Returned mail
To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu
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Your mail could not be delivered because of the following reason:
----- Transcript of session follows -----
No matching or similar name in the people
database for 'greg.nenych'.
----- Unsent message follows -----
>From 9fans Wed Sep 27 04:10:03 0400 1995 remote from cse.psu.edu
Received: from ncrgw1.UUCP (ncrgw1@localhost) by ncrhub7.attgis.com (8.7/8.7) with UUCP id EAA08899 for canada.attgis.com!greg.nenych; Wed, 27 Sep 1995 04:39:15 -0400 (EDT)
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Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 04:10:03 -0400
From: MAILER-DAEMON@ncrcan.canada.NCR.COM
Subject: Returned mail
To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu
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Your mail could not be delivered because of the following reason:
----- Transcript of session follows -----
No matching or similar name in the people
database for 'greg.nenych'.
----- Unsent message follows -----
>From 9fans Wed Sep 27 03:27:07 0400 1995 remote from cse.psu.edu
Received: from ncrgw1.UUCP (ncrgw1@localhost) by ncrhub7.attgis.com (8.7/8.7) with UUCP id EAA06696 for canada.attgis.com!greg.nenych; Wed, 27 Sep 1995 04:08:44 -0400 (EDT)
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Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 03:27:07 -0400
From: MAILER-DAEMON@ncrcan.canada.NCR.COM
Subject: Returned mail
To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu
Message-ID: <9509270327.ab27967@ncrhub1.ATTGIS.COM>
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Your mail could not be delivered because of the following reason:
----- Transcript of session follows -----
No matching or similar name in the people
database for 'greg.nenych'.
----- Unsent message follows -----
>From 9fans Wed Sep 27 03:11:01 0400 1995 remote from cse.psu.edu
Received: from ncrgw1.UUCP (ncrgw1@localhost) by ncrhub7.attgis.com (8.7/8.7) with UUCP id DAA03688 for canada.attgis.com!greg.nenych; Wed, 27 Sep 1995 03:25:48 -0400 (EDT)
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Message-Id: <199509270711.HAA02495@earth.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp>
To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu
Subject: where is 'find'?
X-Face: $Cx`H<mo[k@}`->4h}&#Ay65<'8JKnrNJ"m]<sl}[8usxY~+yrH/[F'>K0nX2>7@Da=n'V$
uF~ag)mR<x5qPXu~v+SBh}^sc;YOAlSJP&ErCnp=6j2jq|a~}q<Cw[!&z6N%s?fTn5Nf167W$/f#Qg
n*?o9{tYMn?|CLT%n%w;r9$f9Db"t~!HyLpZ]8HE9_{DM(+ghD
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 03:11:01 -0400
From: Kenji Okamoto <okamoto@earth.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp>
Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu
Subject says enough, I expect.
Kenji
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 34+ messages in thread
* Returned mail
@ 1995-09-27 8:40 MAILER-DAEMON
0 siblings, 0 replies; 34+ messages in thread
From: MAILER-DAEMON @ 1995-09-27 8:40 UTC (permalink / raw)
Your mail could not be delivered because of the following reason:
----- Transcript of session follows -----
No matching or similar name in the people
database for 'greg.nenych'.
----- Unsent message follows -----
>From 9fans Wed Sep 27 04:10:03 0400 1995 remote from cse.psu.edu
Received: from ncrgw1.UUCP (ncrgw1@localhost) by ncrhub7.attgis.com (8.7/8.7) with UUCP id EAA08899 for canada.attgis.com!greg.nenych; Wed, 27 Sep 1995 04:39:15 -0400 (EDT)
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Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 04:10:03 -0400
From: MAILER-DAEMON@ncrcan.canada.NCR.COM
Subject: Returned mail
To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu
Message-ID: <9509270410.aa28865@ncrhub1.ATTGIS.COM>
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Your mail could not be delivered because of the following reason:
----- Transcript of session follows -----
No matching or similar name in the people
database for 'greg.nenych'.
----- Unsent message follows -----
>From 9fans Wed Sep 27 03:27:07 0400 1995 remote from cse.psu.edu
Received: from ncrgw1.UUCP (ncrgw1@localhost) by ncrhub7.attgis.com (8.7/8.7) with UUCP id EAA06696 for canada.attgis.com!greg.nenych; Wed, 27 Sep 1995 04:08:44 -0400 (EDT)
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Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 03:27:07 -0400
From: MAILER-DAEMON@ncrcan.canada.NCR.COM
Subject: Returned mail
To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu
Message-ID: <9509270327.ab27967@ncrhub1.ATTGIS.COM>
Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu
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Your mail could not be delivered because of the following reason:
----- Transcript of session follows -----
No matching or similar name in the people
database for 'greg.nenych'.
----- Unsent message follows -----
>From 9fans Wed Sep 27 03:11:01 0400 1995 remote from cse.psu.edu
Received: from ncrgw1.UUCP (ncrgw1@localhost) by ncrhub7.attgis.com (8.7/8.7) with UUCP id DAA03688 for canada.attgis.com!greg.nenych; Wed, 27 Sep 1995 03:25:48 -0400 (EDT)
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Message-Id: <199509270711.HAA02495@earth.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp>
To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu
Subject: where is 'find'?
X-Face: $Cx`H<mo[k@}`->4h}&#Ay65<'8JKnrNJ"m]<sl}[8usxY~+yrH/[F'>K0nX2>7@Da=n'V$
uF~ag)mR<x5qPXu~v+SBh}^sc;YOAlSJP&ErCnp=6j2jq|a~}q<Cw[!&z6N%s?fTn5Nf167W$/f#Qg
n*?o9{tYMn?|CLT%n%w;r9$f9Db"t~!HyLpZ]8HE9_{DM(+ghD
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 03:11:01 -0400
From: Kenji Okamoto <okamoto@earth.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp>
Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu
Subject says enough, I expect.
Kenji
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 34+ messages in thread
* Returned mail
@ 1995-09-27 8:10 MAILER-DAEMON
0 siblings, 0 replies; 34+ messages in thread
From: MAILER-DAEMON @ 1995-09-27 8:10 UTC (permalink / raw)
Your mail could not be delivered because of the following reason:
----- Transcript of session follows -----
No matching or similar name in the people
database for 'greg.nenych'.
----- Unsent message follows -----
>From 9fans Wed Sep 27 03:27:07 0400 1995 remote from cse.psu.edu
Received: from ncrgw1.UUCP (ncrgw1@localhost) by ncrhub7.attgis.com (8.7/8.7) with UUCP id EAA06696 for canada.attgis.com!greg.nenych; Wed, 27 Sep 1995 04:08:44 -0400 (EDT)
Received: by ncrgw1.ATTGIS.COM; 27 Sep 95 04:04:24 EDT
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Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 03:27:07 -0400
From: MAILER-DAEMON@ncrcan.canada.NCR.COM
Subject: Returned mail
To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu
Message-ID: <9509270327.ab27967@ncrhub1.ATTGIS.COM>
Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu
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Your mail could not be delivered because of the following reason:
----- Transcript of session follows -----
No matching or similar name in the people
database for 'greg.nenych'.
----- Unsent message follows -----
>From 9fans Wed Sep 27 03:11:01 0400 1995 remote from cse.psu.edu
Received: from ncrgw1.UUCP (ncrgw1@localhost) by ncrhub7.attgis.com (8.7/8.7) with UUCP id DAA03688 for canada.attgis.com!greg.nenych; Wed, 27 Sep 1995 03:25:48 -0400 (EDT)
Received: by ncrgw1.ATTGIS.COM; 27 Sep 95 03:23:23 EDT
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Message-Id: <199509270711.HAA02495@earth.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp>
To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu
Subject: where is 'find'?
X-Face: $Cx`H<mo[k@}`->4h}&#Ay65<'8JKnrNJ"m]<sl}[8usxY~+yrH/[F'>K0nX2>7@Da=n'V$
uF~ag)mR<x5qPXu~v+SBh}^sc;YOAlSJP&ErCnp=6j2jq|a~}q<Cw[!&z6N%s?fTn5Nf167W$/f#Qg
n*?o9{tYMn?|CLT%n%w;r9$f9Db"t~!HyLpZ]8HE9_{DM(+ghD
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 03:11:01 -0400
From: Kenji Okamoto <okamoto@earth.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp>
Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu
Subject says enough, I expect.
Kenji
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 34+ messages in thread
* Returned mail
@ 1995-09-27 7:27 MAILER-DAEMON
0 siblings, 0 replies; 34+ messages in thread
From: MAILER-DAEMON @ 1995-09-27 7:27 UTC (permalink / raw)
Your mail could not be delivered because of the following reason:
----- Transcript of session follows -----
No matching or similar name in the people
database for 'greg.nenych'.
----- Unsent message follows -----
>From 9fans Wed Sep 27 03:11:01 0400 1995 remote from cse.psu.edu
Received: from ncrgw1.UUCP (ncrgw1@localhost) by ncrhub7.attgis.com (8.7/8.7) with UUCP id DAA03688 for canada.attgis.com!greg.nenych; Wed, 27 Sep 1995 03:25:48 -0400 (EDT)
Received: by ncrgw1.ATTGIS.COM; 27 Sep 95 03:23:23 EDT
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Message-Id: <199509270711.HAA02495@earth.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp>
To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu
Subject: where is 'find'?
X-Face: $Cx`H<mo[k@}`->4h}&#Ay65<'8JKnrNJ"m]<sl}[8usxY~+yrH/[F'>K0nX2>7@Da=n'V$
uF~ag)mR<x5qPXu~v+SBh}^sc;YOAlSJP&ErCnp=6j2jq|a~}q<Cw[!&z6N%s?fTn5Nf167W$/f#Qg
n*?o9{tYMn?|CLT%n%w;r9$f9Db"t~!HyLpZ]8HE9_{DM(+ghD
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 03:11:01 -0400
From: Kenji Okamoto <okamoto@earth.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp>
Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu
Subject says enough, I expect.
Kenji
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 34+ messages in thread
* Returned mail
@ 1995-08-22 5:57 MAILER-DAEMON
0 siblings, 0 replies; 34+ messages in thread
From: MAILER-DAEMON @ 1995-08-22 5:57 UTC (permalink / raw)
Your mail could not be delivered because of the following reason:
----- Transcript of session follows -----
Executing: /usr/lib/mail/surrcmd/smtpqer -B -C -u iss.SouthAfrica.NCR.COM!ncrlnk!ncrhub4!ncrgw1!cse.psu.edu!9fans capetown.SouthAfrica.ATTGIS.COM lynna@capetown.SouthAfrica.ATTGIS.COM
smtpqer: Binary contents cannot be sent via SMTP
server "/usr/lib/mail/surrcmd/smtpqer" failed - unknown mailer error 1
----- Unsent message follows -----
>From ncrhub4!ncrgw1!cse.psu.edu!9fans Mon Aug 21 23:21 EDT 1995 remote from ncrlnk
Received: by ncrlnk.DaytonOH.NCR.COM; 21 Aug 95 23:21:12 EDT
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Date: Mon, 21 Aug 1995 08:04:28 -0400
From: avg@postman.ncube.com (Vadim Antonov)
Message-Id: <9508220304.AA24079@butler.ncube.com>
To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu
Subject: Re: Set User (aka su)
Content-Length: 3096
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>Sure, that doesn't work in a telnet window, but that's a minor point.
"It does not work" is the euphmeism for "it will be fixed by
commercial vendors, many times over, and all their fixes will
be incompatible".
>Putting cursor addressing in 8B= would make it too easy to fall back
>to the old style of interaction, obscuring the new ideas.
There is a large class of applications which do not need any fancy
graphical interfaces. You insist on making them inherently more
complex by forcing implementors to do graphics, their own cooked
mode processing (i already found eight instances in Plan9, all of
them different!) and making interaction with other systems a lot
more inconvinient than it should be.
>All your carping is really about Plan 9's interface incompatibilities with
>Unix. If it's that important to you to use Unix, go use it.
Sorry, i *do* use Unix, and mostly because there is a lot of
things i can't do with Plan 9, because of stupid reasons.
>Plan 9 is
>a statement about its own environment, not about how to connect to
>Unix using telnet.
Ah, ok, so implementing a teletype instead of a display is a
"statement". May i politely inquire why didn't you decide to
get rid of command line interface completely? It is so archaic.
Some people did that long time ago and already made millions.
>Putting the kind of support you want into Plan 9
>compromises the ideas in the system itself. We oppose that.
As i said you either confine system to research lab and hobbyists
or make it able to live in the real world, where legacy systems
are not going to die any time soon.
>If you decide that things need to be compatible with all that's gone
>before, you end up on the road Unix is on.
You missed the point of my philosophy completely. The road the
Unix went is because things were lacking in the initial system,
not because of the inherently bad interface.
It was very easy to design a good generic terminal emulator
and put it into kernel, and get rid of termcap goo in applications
forever. Instead, users and vendors in need of a quick fix expanded
it, so it became intractable. The same is going to happen with
Plan 9, if it is going to be a successful system. The lack
of interface in the system will simply proliferate ugly hacks.
If you have to duplicate functionality in a number of places it
is an indication of a design failure.
>You'll get something like
>Spring or Mach, which are really just reengineerings of the Unix
>interface.
Does not Plan 9 include APE? To make a statement coherent
you should remove it, as it makes people to use their old
habits of fopening and printf-ing. It even has stty and
pseudo-terminals.
Why does it have telnet and cu at all? It connects people
to the systems with a completely different interface (horror!).
Sure, people who want to talk to Unix systems can use Unix.
Also, to make the statement pure the name of "ls" should be
changed, so users won't forget they're not on a Unix system.
I respect people who go on hunger strikes. As long as they
don't sneak food in when nobody watches.
--vadim
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 34+ messages in thread
* Returned mail
@ 1995-08-22 3:58 MAILER-DAEMON
0 siblings, 0 replies; 34+ messages in thread
From: MAILER-DAEMON @ 1995-08-22 3:58 UTC (permalink / raw)
Your mail could not be delivered because of the following reason:
----- Transcript of session follows -----
Executing: /usr/lib/mail/surrcmd/smtpqer -B -C -u iss.SouthAfrica.NCR.COM!ncrlnk!ncrhub4!ncrgw1!cse.psu.edu!9fans capetown.SouthAfrica.ATTGIS.COM lynna@capetown.SouthAfrica.ATTGIS.COM
smtpqer: Binary contents cannot be sent via SMTP
server "/usr/lib/mail/surrcmd/smtpqer" failed - unknown mailer error 1
----- Unsent message follows -----
>From ncrhub4!ncrgw1!cse.psu.edu!9fans Mon Aug 21 21:04 EDT 1995 remote from ncrlnk
Received: by ncrlnk.DaytonOH.NCR.COM; 21 Aug 95 21:04:25 EDT
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From: rob@plan9.att.com
To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu
Date: Mon, 21 Aug 1995 19:51:32 -0400
Subject: Re: Set User (aka su)
Message-Id: <95Aug21.201816edt.45496@colossus.cse.psu.edu>
Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu
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Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu
>hp takes 100+ Kb to implement something which could be
>done in fifty bytes of code in 81/2, scrolls awfully slowly
>and does not handle resizing properly.
>I.e. not implementing a display instead of a typewriter in
>81/2 simply moved the complexity to other place (hp) and
>made user interface incoherent (can't call sam in the same
>window as telnet!)
The point was to try new ways of working, not reproduce the old ways.
I left cursor addressing out on purpose: what Plan 9 offers is a different
way to edit, both local and remote. No, you can't run sam on a telnet
window but you can run it in a cpu window, and we prefer that way of
working. Even when connected to unix, sam -r unixmachine works
fine. Sure, that doesn't work in a telnet window, but that's a minor point.
Putting cursor addressing in 8B= would make it too easy to fall back
to the old style of interaction, obscuring the new ideas.
All your carping is really about Plan 9's interface incompatibilities with
Unix. If it's that important to you to use Unix, go use it. Plan 9 is
a statement about its own environment, not about how to connect to
Unix using telnet. Putting the kind of support you want into Plan 9
compromises the ideas in the system itself. We oppose that.
If you decide that things need to be compatible with all that's gone
before, you end up on the road Unix is on. You'll get something like
Spring or Mach, which are really just reengineerings of the Unix
interface. An O.S. is only as good as its view of the system. Plan 9
provides a different view, and its tools take advantage of those
differences. You could port emacs or whatever other tool you
feel is missing, but why bother? You already have it where you
work now. If you want to see what Plan 9 is about, try it as it is.
The true test is not how easily you can reproduce what Plan 9
is trying to replace; rather it's how the new environment makes
new things possible.
-rob
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 34+ messages in thread
* Returned mail
@ 1995-08-22 3:58 MAILER-DAEMON
0 siblings, 0 replies; 34+ messages in thread
From: MAILER-DAEMON @ 1995-08-22 3:58 UTC (permalink / raw)
Your mail could not be delivered because of the following reason:
----- Transcript of session follows -----
Executing: /usr/lib/mail/surrcmd/smtpqer -B -C -u iss.SouthAfrica.NCR.COM!ncrlnk!ncrhub4!ncrgw1!cse.psu.edu!9fans capetown.SouthAfrica.ATTGIS.COM lynna@capetown.SouthAfrica.ATTGIS.COM
smtpqer: Binary contents cannot be sent via SMTP
server "/usr/lib/mail/surrcmd/smtpqer" failed - unknown mailer error 1
----- Unsent message follows -----
>From ncrhub4!ncrgw1!cse.psu.edu!9fans Mon Aug 21 21:04 EDT 1995 remote from ncrlnk
Received: by ncrlnk.DaytonOH.NCR.COM; 21 Aug 95 21:04:13 EDT
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From: forsyth@plan9.cs.york.ac.uk
To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu
Date: Mon, 21 Aug 1995 19:42:36 -0400
Subject: Re: Set User (aka su)
Message-Id: <95Aug21.201427edt.45552@colossus.cse.psu.edu>
Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu
>>done in fifty bytes of code in 81/2, scrolls awfully slowly
>>and does not handle resizing properly.
hmmmm, all right. show me that code (and it's not as though i'm from Missouri).
the thing that many people want from hp -- support for the
ESC-based cursor addressing schemes -- is the bulk of hp's source code.
furthermore, the people who want that here are rarely satisfied
by hp -- they wt more more more cursor addressing codes --
specifically support for either VT320 or PC `ANSI' escape sequences.
that requires somewhat more than the code in hp.
i've been looking at this recently, so i've had to read lots of vt220 emulators,
the vt/pc emulator in the linux kernel, etc. i don't accept this statement
at all.
also, the scrolling in hp is slow because it makes no attempt to be fast.
it has little to do with the fact that it is working as a client of 8B=.
(after all, Sun's EEPROM has the screen mapped, and did you ever see
the display and scrolling time on that in the older Sparcs. whew!)
>>made user interface incoherent (can't call sam in the same
>>window as telnet!)
i do not understand how support for cursor addressing makes the user interface
`coherent' on any of the systems that support this archaic crud.
sam is usable in an X11 xterm only because it makes a separate call back to the terminal to produce something that isn't an xterm.
there is incoherence in the plan 9 user interface, because there are several.
most obviously, the mouse handling conventions in Acme are different from those elsewhere;
perhaps the conventions will eventually converge again at a new limit.
at least it is an interesting diversion.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 34+ messages in thread
* Returned mail
@ 1995-08-19 1:58 MAILER-DAEMON
0 siblings, 0 replies; 34+ messages in thread
From: MAILER-DAEMON @ 1995-08-19 1:58 UTC (permalink / raw)
Your mail could not be delivered because of the following reason:
----- Transcript of session follows -----
Executing: /usr/lib/mail/surrcmd/smtpqer -B -C -u iss.SouthAfrica.NCR.COM!ncrlnk!ncrhub4!ncrgw1!cse.psu.edu!9fans capetown.SouthAfrica.ATTGIS.COM lynna@capetown.SouthAfrica.ATTGIS.COM
smtpqer: Binary contents cannot be sent via SMTP
server "/usr/lib/mail/surrcmd/smtpqer" failed - unknown mailer error 1
----- Unsent message follows -----
>From ncrhub4!ncrgw1!cse.psu.edu!9fans Fri Aug 18 19:11 EDT 1995 remote from ncrlnk
Received: by ncrlnk.DaytonOH.NCR.COM; 18 Aug 95 19:11:13 EDT
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To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu
Subject: Re: religious wars
In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 18 Aug 1995 16:48:37 EDT."
<95Aug18.170312edt.46305@colossus.cse.psu.edu>
Date: Fri, 18 Aug 1995 18:51:23 -0400
From: Scott Schwartz <schwartz@galapagos.cse.psu.edu>
Message-Id: <95Aug18.185128edt.12776@galapagos.cse.psu.edu>
Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu
I agree with most of what Dave wrote; here's my 2B".
| If one takes Vadim's argument to the extreme, he
| should eliminate passwords internally since he
| has adequate protection, trusts everyone
| internally, and plan 9 is just a toy system.
| We ran that way ourselves for years
| (till management started using Plan 9 and wanted
| something better to keep us from seeing
| their secret stuff).
Lots of things about the system, and unix before it, reflect this mode
of development. Consider file permissions: user/group/other is
adequate in uncomplicated circumstances, but in the typical university
setting access control lists would make life much easier,
particularly because the people you trust with particular files or
directories varies so much and so dynamically.
Also, there's a difference between any-user and unauthenticated-person
that user none doesn't seem to capture. Shipping the system with
telnetd allowing "none" to log in from anywhere strikes me as a
mistake. Allowing anonymous 9p connections is worrysome too. AFS does
better, since it lets you restrict what unauthenticated users are
allowed to look at (easy with ACLs).
| Out biggest fear is that this pressure will make
| passwords a default mechanism. We'ld rather see
| people working on getting Unix and DOS to use
| better security or making Plan 9 security
| tighter like adding expontial key exchange than
| to add options to Plan 9 to make it less secure.
| Just the ability to do passwords in the clear is
| the first step down a very steep slope. Climbing
| back up again is real hard. We have a chance for
| a system that never goes that route, why blow it.
I very strongly agree with this. In the unix world most people (and
vendors) aggressively avoid kerberos, s/key, and other things that
would improve our lives. Plan 9 is a rare and valuable example of
doing things better and easier. When I show it off to visitors I
always point that out.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 34+ messages in thread
* Returned mail
@ 1995-08-18 23:11 MAILER-DAEMON
0 siblings, 0 replies; 34+ messages in thread
From: MAILER-DAEMON @ 1995-08-18 23:11 UTC (permalink / raw)
Your mail could not be delivered because of the following reason:
----- Transcript of session follows -----
Executing: /usr/lib/mail/surrcmd/smtpqer -C -u ncrcae.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM!ncrhub4!ncrgw1!cse.psu.edu!9fans yesac wescott@yesac
smtpqer: Binary contents cannot be sent via SMTP
server "/usr/lib/mail/surrcmd/smtpqer" failed - unknown mailer error 1
----- Unsent message follows -----
>From ncrgw1!cse.psu.edu!9fans Fri Aug 18 19:11 EDT 1995 remote from ncrhub4
Received: by ncrhub4.ATTGIS.COM; 18 Aug 95 19:11:53 EDT
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Received: from localhost by galapagos.cse.psu.edu with SMTP id <12776>; Fri, 18 Aug 1995 18:51:28 -0400
To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu
Subject: Re: religious wars
In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 18 Aug 1995 16:48:37 EDT."
<95Aug18.170312edt.46305@colossus.cse.psu.edu>
Date: Fri, 18 Aug 1995 18:51:23 -0400
From: Scott Schwartz <schwartz@galapagos.cse.psu.edu>
Message-Id: <95Aug18.185128edt.12776@galapagos.cse.psu.edu>
Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu
I agree with most of what Dave wrote; here's my 2B".
| If one takes Vadim's argument to the extreme, he
| should eliminate passwords internally since he
| has adequate protection, trusts everyone
| internally, and plan 9 is just a toy system.
| We ran that way ourselves for years
| (till management started using Plan 9 and wanted
| something better to keep us from seeing
| their secret stuff).
Lots of things about the system, and unix before it, reflect this mode
of development. Consider file permissions: user/group/other is
adequate in uncomplicated circumstances, but in the typical university
setting access control lists would make life much easier,
particularly because the people you trust with particular files or
directories varies so much and so dynamically.
Also, there's a difference between any-user and unauthenticated-person
that user none doesn't seem to capture. Shipping the system with
telnetd allowing "none" to log in from anywhere strikes me as a
mistake. Allowing anonymous 9p connections is worrysome too. AFS does
better, since it lets you restrict what unauthenticated users are
allowed to look at (easy with ACLs).
| Out biggest fear is that this pressure will make
| passwords a default mechanism. We'ld rather see
| people working on getting Unix and DOS to use
| better security or making Plan 9 security
| tighter like adding expontial key exchange than
| to add options to Plan 9 to make it less secure.
| Just the ability to do passwords in the clear is
| the first step down a very steep slope. Climbing
| back up again is real hard. We have a chance for
| a system that never goes that route, why blow it.
I very strongly agree with this. In the unix world most people (and
vendors) aggressively avoid kerberos, s/key, and other things that
would improve our lives. Plan 9 is a rare and valuable example of
doing things better and easier. When I show it off to visitors I
always point that out.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 34+ messages in thread
* Returned mail
@ 1995-08-09 10:38 MAILER-DAEMON
0 siblings, 0 replies; 34+ messages in thread
From: MAILER-DAEMON @ 1995-08-09 10:38 UTC (permalink / raw)
Your mail could not be delivered because of the following reason:
----- Transcript of session follows -----
Executing: /usr/lib/mail/surrcmd/smtpqer -B -C -u ncrausl1.Australia.NCR.COM!ncrhub4!ncrgw1!cse.psu.edu!9fans msm2syd bduane@msm2syd
smtpqer: Binary contents cannot be sent via SMTP
server "/usr/lib/mail/surrcmd/smtpqer" failed - unknown mailer error 1
----- Unsent message follows -----
>From ncrgw1!cse.psu.edu!9fans Tue Aug 8 01:26 EDT 1995 remote from ncrhub4
Received: by ncrhub4.ATTGIS.COM; 8 Aug 95 01:26:12 EDT
Received: by ncrgw1.ATTGIS.COM; 8 Aug 95 01:21:54 EDT
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From: seanq@plan9.att.com
To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu
Date: Tue, 8 Aug 1995 00:22:06 -0400
Message-Id: <95Aug8.005205edt.33958@psuvax1.cse.psu.edu>
Sender: owner-9fans@cse.psu.edu
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu
>That sounds like a bug. But why doesn't ftpfs suffer the same
>symptoms? On the other hand, even
> sleep 10 >[0]/tmp/zz >[1]/tmp/zz >[2]/tmp/zz >[3]/tmp/zz &
>makes the window stick around; what files is that holding open?
>It should be none, right?
When you open a window, a new name space is created with the window's
files bound in the appropriate places, i.e. /dev and /mnt/8B=. These
binds are in effect open file descriptors and the window will not
go away until they are closed. This is why the command line
sleep 10 >[0]/tmp/zz >[1]/tmp/zz >[2]/tmp/zz >[3]/tmp/zz &
stops the window from closing.
The namespace itself is referenced counted, so when all processes associated
with the name space have exited, any open files bound in the namespace are closed.
The reason the window closes even though ftpfs is running is rather subtle.
When ftpfs is started, it rforks the server process with the flag RFNAMEG
set. This puts the server process in a copy of the original namespace.
Note that since it is a copy of the original namespace, it contains
references the the window's files.
The server is accessed by a pipe that is mounted in the original namespace.
When /bin/rc exits, the original namespace closes. At this point, the window
is held up by ftpfs's namespace. However, the original name-space contains
the only reference to one end of the pipe to ftpfs, thus this end of
the pipe is closed. Ftpfs notices this and dies. This closes
the namespace associated with ftpfs, closing the files associated with the window,
which finally allows the window to close.......
The reason that the above does not occur for dossrv is that the server
process is not rforked with RFNAMEG set. This is probably a bug. The net
result is that rc and dossrv share the same namespace, and thus when rc exits,
the namespace is not closed and hence dossrv does not die.....In effect
dossrv holds itself up, which stops the window from closing.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 34+ messages in thread
* Returned mail
@ 1995-08-09 6:59 dhog
0 siblings, 0 replies; 34+ messages in thread
From: dhog @ 1995-08-09 6:59 UTC (permalink / raw)
Greg Nenych <gnenych@ncrcan.canada.ATTGIS.COM> wrote:
>Mailers have several things to choose from including "From ", "From: ", and
>"Reply-To: ". Do (or should) any of them use "Sender: "?
No. Note that "From: " and "Reply-To: " are there for the user agent. Bounce
messages should never be sent based on these headers. Rather, they should
use the SMTP "envelope sender" (yes, I'm assuming we're talking SMTP here).
This is frequently stored in the Unix "From " header (YMMV). Some software
may put it in the "Return-Path: " header.
Mailing list exploders set the envelope sender to the list maintainer, so that
bounces go back to the one person able to do anything about them (eg
unsubscribe them).
Some software throws away the envelope sender and uses the rfc822 From:
header instead. This is very bad. It can cause mail loops, resulting in many
many bounce messages in everyone's mail box (this has happened on 9fans).
A lesser sin is for the mail user agent to generate replies based on the envelope
sender. This is usually easier to fix/work around (just replace the user agent :-).
>> Fans of Plan 9 _want_ to be able
>> to send 8 bit (utf) characters, and most smtp agents will let them (the "cannot"
>> in the message is patently false).
>
>Actually, that's 8/16 bit UTF characters depending on the encoding.
I meant full 8 bit chars as opposed to 7 bit ascii...
Anyway, enough about mail. Back to Plan 9!
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 34+ messages in thread
* Returned mail
@ 1995-08-08 17:16 Scott
0 siblings, 0 replies; 34+ messages in thread
From: Scott @ 1995-08-08 17:16 UTC (permalink / raw)
Greg Nenych <gnenych@ncrcan.canada.ATTGIS.COM> writes:
| smtpqer is part of the stock SVR4 SMTP software.
But wait, it gets better... NCR Australia says:
X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0
User mail received addressed to the following unknown addresses:
ATTSYD/MSM2SYD/postmaster
| Probably. However, the offending message did not have a "Content-Length:"
| line or anything else to clue the mailer in to the fact that the message
| had non-7bit-ascii contents.
Naturally: It wasn't a MIME format message. Even if we slap all the
mime stuff on our messages, silly mailers can sill bounce our 8 bit
messages.
| Actually, that's 8/16 bit UTF characters depending on the encoding.
| This stuff will cause even more problems for netnews when, hopefully, this
| list will be gatewayed into comp.os.plan9.
No, actually it won't. C news and INN handle 8 bit messages perfectly
well. The only reason internet mailers have trouble is because the
folks at ietf didn't want to standardize the widely existing practice
of "just send 8", thus giving authors of new mailers licence to do the
wrong thing.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 34+ messages in thread
* Returned mail
@ 1995-08-08 15:37 Scott
0 siblings, 0 replies; 34+ messages in thread
From: Scott @ 1995-08-08 15:37 UTC (permalink / raw)
dhog@plan9.cs.su.oz.au writes:
| Is there any way to disable this message?
Starting right now, anyone whose mailer does this will be unsubscribed
from the list.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 34+ messages in thread
* Returned mail
@ 1995-08-08 15:33 Greg
0 siblings, 0 replies; 34+ messages in thread
From: Greg @ 1995-08-08 15:33 UTC (permalink / raw)
>Your mail could not be delivered because of the following reason:
>
> ----- Transcript of session follows -----
>Executing: /usr/lib/mail/surrcmd/smtpqer -B -C -u ncrausl1.Australia.NCR.COM!ncrhub4!ncrgw1!cse.psu.edu!9fans msm2syd bduane@msm2syd
>smtpqer: Binary contents cannot be sent via SMTP
smtpqer is part of the stock SVR4 SMTP software. When SVR4's rmail invokes
smtpqer (via mailsurr) and smtpqer gags on the message, rmail punts the
message to, in this case, the address in the Reply-To: line. Sadly, the
recipients don't even realize that this is happening.
This is possibly a configuration issue since I am using the same(?) SMTP
software and, as far as I know, messages to me have not bounced. (I receive
the original message as well as the bounces)
dhog@plan9.cs.su.oz.au writes:
> Is there any way to disable this message?
Probably. However, the offending message did not have a "Content-Length:"
line or anything else to clue the mailer in to the fact that the message
had non-7bit-ascii contents.
> If the software at NCR (sysv upas??) is going
> to bounce such mail, it should at least go to the envelope sender, and
> not the entire list.
Mailers have several things to choose from including "From ", "From: ", and
"Reply-To: ". Do (or should) any of them use "Sender: "?
Not adding the "Reply-To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu" header might make the problem
go away.
> Fans of Plan 9 _want_ to be able
> to send 8 bit (utf) characters, and most smtp agents will let them (the "cannot"
> in the message is patently false).
Actually, that's 8/16 bit UTF characters depending on the encoding.
This stuff will cause even more problems for netnews when, hopefully, this
list will be gatewayed into comp.os.plan9.
--
Greg Nenych <greg.nenych@canada.attgis.com>
AT&T Global Information Solutions Canada Ltd.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 34+ messages in thread
* Returned mail
@ 1995-08-08 7:17 dhog
0 siblings, 0 replies; 34+ messages in thread
From: dhog @ 1995-08-08 7:17 UTC (permalink / raw)
>Your mail could not be delivered because of the following reason:
>
>
> ----- Transcript of session follows -----
>Executing: /usr/lib/mail/surrcmd/smtpqer -B -C -u ncrausl1.Australia.NCR.COM!ncrhub4!ncrgw1!cse.psu.edu!9fans msm2syd bduane@msm2syd
>smtpqer: Binary contents cannot be sent via SMTP
Is there any way to disable this message? Fans of Plan 9 _want_ to be able
to send 8 bit (utf) characters, and most smtp agents will let them (the "cannot"
in the message is patently false). If the software at NCR (sysv upas??) is going
to bounce such mail, it should at least go to the envelope sender, and
not the entire list.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 34+ messages in thread
* Returned mail
@ 1995-08-08 5:37 MAILER-DAEMON
0 siblings, 0 replies; 34+ messages in thread
From: MAILER-DAEMON @ 1995-08-08 5:37 UTC (permalink / raw)
Your mail could not be delivered because of the following reason:
----- Transcript of session follows -----
Executing: /usr/lib/mail/surrcmd/smtpqer -C -u ncrcae.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM!ncrhub4!ncrgw1!cse.psu.edu!9fans yesac wescott@yesac
smtpqer: Binary contents cannot be sent via SMTP
server "/usr/lib/mail/surrcmd/smtpqer" failed - unknown mailer error 1
----- Unsent message follows -----
>From ncrgw1!cse.psu.edu!9fans Tue Aug 8 01:38 EDT 1995 remote from ncrhub4
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From: seanq@plan9.att.com
To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu
Date: Tue, 8 Aug 1995 00:22:06 -0400
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>That sounds like a bug. But why doesn't ftpfs suffer the same
>symptoms? On the other hand, even
> sleep 10 >[0]/tmp/zz >[1]/tmp/zz >[2]/tmp/zz >[3]/tmp/zz &
>makes the window stick around; what files is that holding open?
>It should be none, right?
When you open a window, a new name space is created with the window's
files bound in the appropriate places, i.e. /dev and /mnt/8B=. These
binds are in effect open file descriptors and the window will not
go away until they are closed. This is why the command line
sleep 10 >[0]/tmp/zz >[1]/tmp/zz >[2]/tmp/zz >[3]/tmp/zz &
stops the window from closing.
The namespace itself is referenced counted, so when all processes associated
with the name space have exited, any open files bound in the namespace are closed.
The reason the window closes even though ftpfs is running is rather subtle.
When ftpfs is started, it rforks the server process with the flag RFNAMEG
set. This puts the server process in a copy of the original namespace.
Note that since it is a copy of the original namespace, it contains
references the the window's files.
The server is accessed by a pipe that is mounted in the original namespace.
When /bin/rc exits, the original namespace closes. At this point, the window
is held up by ftpfs's namespace. However, the original name-space contains
the only reference to one end of the pipe to ftpfs, thus this end of
the pipe is closed. Ftpfs notices this and dies. This closes
the namespace associated with ftpfs, closing the files associated with the window,
which finally allows the window to close.......
The reason that the above does not occur for dossrv is that the server
process is not rforked with RFNAMEG set. This is probably a bug. The net
result is that rc and dossrv share the same namespace, and thus when rc exits,
the namespace is not closed and hence dossrv does not die.....In effect
dossrv holds itself up, which stops the window from closing.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 34+ messages in thread
* Returned mail
@ 1995-08-05 17:56 MAILER-DAEMON
0 siblings, 0 replies; 34+ messages in thread
From: MAILER-DAEMON @ 1995-08-05 17:56 UTC (permalink / raw)
Your mail could not be delivered because of the following reason:
----- Transcript of session follows -----
Executing: /usr/lib/mail/surrcmd/smtpqer -C -u ncrcae.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM!ncrhub4!ncrgw1!cse.psu.edu!9fans yesac wescott@yesac
smtpqer: Binary contents cannot be sent via SMTP
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----- Unsent message follows -----
>From ncrgw1!cse.psu.edu!9fans Sat Aug 5 13:57 EDT 1995 remote from ncrhub4
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To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu
Subject: emoticons
Date: Sat, 5 Aug 1995 13:29:24 -0400
From: Scott Schwartz <schwartz@galapagos.cse.psu.edu>
Message-Id: <95Aug5.132933edt.12712@galapagos.cse.psu.edu>
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The utf paper says "why type :-) when you can use the character b\x18:?
Under unix, sam supports <compose>:) to generate the happy face, but
that Rune seems to be missing from /sys/src/9/port/latin1.c. Should
we add :), :( and ;) to the table?
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 34+ messages in thread
* Returned mail
@ 1995-07-28 22:03 MAILER-DAEMON
0 siblings, 0 replies; 34+ messages in thread
From: MAILER-DAEMON @ 1995-07-28 22:03 UTC (permalink / raw)
Your mail could not be delivered because of the following reason:
----- Transcript of session follows -----
Executing: /usr/lib/mail/surrcmd/smtpqer -C -u ncrcae.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM!ncrhub4!ncrgw1!cse.psu.edu!9fans yesac wescott@yesac
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----- Unsent message follows -----
>From ncrgw1!cse.psu.edu!9fans Fri Jul 28 18:04 EDT 1995 remote from ncrhub4
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To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu
Subject: errata
Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 15:29:04 -0400
From: Scott Schwartz <schwartz@galapagos.cse.psu.edu>
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Some of those diffs in the errata are extensive. What's the
recommended way to apply them? Copy the files to a unix machine and
run patch there? b\x189
In lieu of patch, how about anonymous 9p mounts to distibute the up to
date files? You can tell the lawyers that only licencees are currently
able to retrieve files that way. Works for AFS.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 34+ messages in thread
* Returned mail
@ 1995-07-27 23:33 MAILER-DAEMON
0 siblings, 0 replies; 34+ messages in thread
From: MAILER-DAEMON @ 1995-07-27 23:33 UTC (permalink / raw)
Your mail could not be delivered because of the following reason:
----- Transcript of session follows -----
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----- Unsent message follows -----
>From ncrgw1!cse.psu.edu!9fans Thu Jul 27 19:33 EDT 1995 remote from ncrhub4
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Date: Thu, 27 Jul 1995 18:33:51 -0400
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Rather than have everyone dig thru the majordumbo archives, I'll just
post the messages since just before the 19th. That way external
archive sites will get them too.
Also, could everyone please check that their addresses are correct
and not duplicated or otherwise confused?
-------
>From 9fans-outgoing-owner Tue Jul 18 21:02:40 1995
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From: Lawrence.V.Cipriani@att.com
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Original-From: lvc@cbgbcs.cb.att.com
To: 9fans
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 1995 21:23:52 -0400
Subject: AT&T Plan 9 announcement
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AT&T ANNOUNCES *** AT&T today announced that Plan 9, a new
computer operating system from AT&T Bell Laboratories, is now
available for research and educational use. The Plan 9 operating
system, named for the science-fiction cult movie "Plan 9 From
Outer Space," was designed by the inventors of the UNIX system, a
widely used operating system created at Bell Labs 25 years ago.
"Plan 9 is not in competition with UNIX or Windows," said Paul
Fillinich, marketing manager for AT&T Software Solutions. The
Plan 9 system is based on the concept of distributed computing in
a networked, client-server environment. The product, including
source code, is available for $350. The full kit will be shipped
with a CD-ROM, four diskettes and two manuals. A partial kit,
containing only the manuals, may be ordered separately for $125.
The contact number in the U.S. for information and orders is 800-
462-8146; elsewhere, +1-415-943-4076.
--
Larry Cipriani, l.v.cipriani@att.com
Ever feel like you're being watched ? -- You will.
>From 9fans-outgoing-owner Wed Jul 19 03:43:15 1995
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From: Christopher.Vance@adfa.oz.au
To: 9fans
Subject: Re: free plan 9 trial
In-reply-to: Your message of Tue, 18 Jul 1995 16:18:35 -0400.
<95Jul18.163015edt.34076@psuvax1.cse.psu.edu>
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| The free version is available. Ftp to
| plan9.att.com, log in as anonymous, and get the
| files from /plan9/pcdist. The distrib.html
| page now points to them.
I tried booting disk1 on two 486s around here.
One said
/386/init: file does not exist
panic: boot process dies: unknown
(plus what I take to be a stack trace)
A directory listing under MS-DOS indicates \386\init does exist.
The other one said
exception/interrupt 6
FLAGS=10092 TRAP=6 ECODE=0 PC=80107d84
(plus a register dump)
I successfully booted the floppy image from the previous version on both
machines, so I'm sad to see the new version fail so soon. Should I try
verifying the disk image with a checksum? Or should I try a different
brand PC?
(I was still waiting for a local SparcStation 2 to become available so I
can put the previous version up there. Perhaps I should continue to wait.)
-- Christopher
>From 9fans-outgoing-owner Wed Jul 19 06:55:20 1995
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To: 9fans
Subject: plan9 disks in ftp.bath.ac.uk:/pub/plan9
Date: Wed, 19 Jul 1995 06:04:45 -0400
From: Icarus Sparry <ccsis@bath.ac.uk>
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I have put a copy of the plan9.att.com:/plan9/pcdist directory in
ftp.bath.ac.uk:/pub/plan9, for anyone who has a faster route to us than
the states.
It is also available in the alex cache of alex.niss.ac.uk for UK academic
sites.
>From 9fans-outgoing-owner Wed Jul 19 13:12:09 1995
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From: dhog@plan9.cs.su.oz.au
Date: Wed, 19 Jul 1995 12:46:26 -0400
To: 9fans
Subject: Booting a Sparcstation from disk
Message-Id: <95Jul19.130953edt.34080@psuvax1.cse.psu.edu>
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[Apologies if you've already seen this]
I've got my SLC booting from disk. The command ss/home will set up
a new boot disk (takes about 24 mins). Caveats:
- boot disk must be scsi id 3 for the ROM monitor to boot from it
- disk probably needs to have been formatted by sunos/solaris, which stores
a lot of pointless information + a checksum in sector 0, which I have been
leaving alone. If this becomes a problem, I can probably provide a "blank"
sector 0 (there's a magic number, so it can't just be all zeros)
- only V1 of the ROM monitor is supported. The ELC's are V2. I will
probably fix this at a later date. Apparently a V0 exists also...
P.S. You really don't want to know how it works! ;-)
P.P.S. Danger! The other "home" scripts are unaware that the interface to
disk/prep has changed...
>From 9fans-outgoing-owner Wed Jul 19 17:33:02 1995
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From: mmarshal@spdmail.spd.dsccc.com (Mike Marshall)
Message-Id: <9507192134.AA03351@spd.dsccc.com>
Subject: Re: AT&T Plan 9 announcement
To: 9fans
Date: Wed, 19 Jul 1995 17:34:50 -0400
In-Reply-To: <9507190025.AA27687@cbgbcs.cb.att.com> from "Lawrence.V.Cipriani@att.com" at Jul 18, 95 09:23:52 pm
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>
> AT&T ANNOUNCES *** AT&T today announced that Plan 9, a new
> computer operating system from AT&T Bell Laboratories, is now
> available for research and educational use. The Plan 9 operating
> system, named for the science-fiction cult movie "Plan 9 From
> Outer Space," was designed by the inventors of the UNIX system, a
> widely used operating system created at Bell Labs 25 years ago.
> "Plan 9 is not in competition with UNIX or Windows," said Paul
> Fillinich, marketing manager for AT&T Software Solutions. The
> Plan 9 system is based on the concept of distributed computing in
> a networked, client-server environment. The product, including
> source code, is available for $350.
Does this mean that upon purchasing the "Full Kit" I will hold a
"Source License for this product"...
Does anyone have the Legal Speak as to what I can do with this
"Source License"???
Mike
mmarshal@spd.dsccc.com
>From 9fans-outgoing-owner Wed Jul 19 18:29:37 1995
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From: mmarshal@spdmail.spd.dsccc.com (Mike Marshall)
Message-Id: <9507192229.AA04716@spd.dsccc.com>
Subject: Re: floppies for ftp?
To: 9fans
Date: Wed, 19 Jul 1995 18:29:57 -0400
In-Reply-To: <9507181914.AA30577@nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov> from "James W. Williams" at Jul 18, 95 03:14:30 pm
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>
> Any word on when the floppy disk images for the binary-only version will
> be put up for ftp?
Will there be a trial for Sparc???
Mike
>From 9fans-outgoing-owner Thu Jul 20 17:58:09 1995
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From: jeremy@sour.sw.oz.au (Jeremy Fitzhardinge)
Message-Id: <199507201504.AA02178@sour.sw.oz.au>
Subject: aux/mouse: Unknown mouse type
To: 9fans (Graverobbers from Outer Space!)
Date: Thu, 20 Jul 1995 11:04:48 -0400
Organization: Softway Pty Ltd
X-Face:
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Hi all,
I've installed the PC demo, and it mostly seems to work. However,
when it tries to start the mouse driver (?) at boot time, or if I
start it manually, it exits with the "unknown mouse type" message
after couple of seconds delay.
If I "cat /dev/eia0" it produces output when I move the mouse. I've
tried a couple of mice, both of which work as normal 3 button/5
byte mice on other systems. I also tried the other serial port, and
using "aux/mouse 0" explicitly. aux/mouse ps2, tried just for the
sake of experimentation, exited immediately without a message.
A search of the man pages on plan9.att.com didn't produce anything
useful, and of course, I don't (yet) have the source for the
aux/mouse.
Thanks,
Jeremy
>From 9fans-outgoing-owner Fri Jul 21 03:11:02 1995
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From: jeremy@sour.sw.oz.au (Jeremy Fitzhardinge)
Message-Id: <199507210707.AA00204@sour.sw.oz.au>
Subject: Mouse problems on the PC again
To: 9fans (Graverobbers from Outer Space!)
Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 03:07:20 -0400
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Hi again,
I should have paid more attention. The message "unknown mouse
type" really means that: when I switched the mouse into to Microsoft
mode it worked properly. However, every single 3 button mouse with
a Logitech/MS switch ignores the middle button in MS mode. I know
the MS protocol supports a 3rd button, but it seems that all the
mouse hardware assumes that the software will break with it enabled.
Has someone implemented a mouse driver which supports the more
common 3 button mouse protocol?
Thanks,
J
>From 9fans-outgoing-owner Fri Jul 21 11:40:45 1995
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Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 11:40:09 -0400
From: a82@blue.lrw.uni-bremen.de (Henner Gratz)
Message-Id: <9507211540.AA03852@black.lrw.uni-bremen.de>
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Hello everybody!
Now, after Plan9 is available for everyone, I plan to order my CD-ROM from AT&T.
I want to install it on a 486/Pentium PC. Because I don't own such a beast at
the moment, I will have to buy one. And here the problems start. On what
main-boards, graphic-cards etc. Plan9 will run. The WWW-pages on plan9.att.com
aren't very detailed. I have also read the lists spread in the 9fans mailing
list, but they are from 1994 for the old distributions.
So here's my question: Is there a list covering the new distribution?
Thank you very much for any answers!
Regards,
Henner
--
===============================================================================
Henner Gratz Email: a82@lrw.uni-bremen.de
Leeuwarder Str. 16A Fax (at home): +49-(0)421-58 52 10
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GERMANY
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>From 9fans-outgoing-owner Mon Jul 24 08:51:06 1995
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Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 08:51:44 -0400
From: a82@blue.lrw.uni-bremen.de (Henner Gratz)
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Hello again!
Here I am again, looking for the right configuration...
Has anybody tried to run Plan9 on a Gigabyte GA-586AT(/P256) board?
The Bi-processor boards with the Neptun chip set used by the AT&T folks
are nice, but the Trition boards are faster AND cheaper!
Any experiences?
Tschuess,
Henner
PS: I hope this will be the last question about the `right' configuration.
--
===============================================================================
Henner Gratz Email: a82@lrw.uni-bremen.de
Leeuwarder Str. 16A Fax (at home): +49-(0)421-58 52 10
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GERMANY
===============================================================================
>From 9fans-outgoing-owner Tue Jul 25 12:45:48 1995
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Date: Tue, 25 Jul 1995 12:43:28 -0400
From: Steve_Kilbane@cegelecproj.co.uk (Steve_Kilbane)
Message-Id: <9507251643.AA01104@spirit.cegelecproj.co.uk>
X-Planation: X-Faces images can be viewed with the XFaces program
To: 9fans
Subject: 003056-014 VGA card supported?
Content-Length: 619
X-Face: Iqsa(US9p?)Y^W+6Ff[Z]<t?\A!eaL'DG{20*#{C1;'Ct&}L}B^/1(aYI@hP)4!<}7D=2gm
8!$T`8QNfK<te\20%A\`wm*wa2"^Up*Qs"X}KeV*3XeB2te&sKp*t`N;^BDh[6=K{ZBE=O>rM"uFE)
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I've been playing with the trial distribution floppies, trying to
get the system to boot on an old Dell 316SX, here at work. I can get
it as far as attempting to configure the VGA system, but of course the
default /lib/vgadb doesn't have an entry for my machine. I've tried
hacking vgadb and just adding in an entry for it as a straightforward
640x480, but it just hangs. Sigh. I've got the machine to the state
where it can boot up and give me a shell, but there's no access to
8B=, etc.
So the question is, is there any way of getting it to support this card,
or do I just give up on this particular machine?
steve
>From 9fans-outgoing-owner Wed Jul 26 16:00:44 1995
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Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 12:36:50 -0400
From: rwolff@noao.edu (Richard Wolff)
Message-Id: <9507261636.AA19352@daikon.tuc.noao.edu.noao>
To: 9fans
Subject: Installing on second disk
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I have a Gateway PC (486/66) with two 400 MB (IDE) disk drives. I'd
like to install plan9 on the second drive (hd1) but retain there a
modest DOS partion (D:). If I install the 4 disk "trial" system using
the orignal "prep", all goes well and I have a system I can boot from
hd1, except that, should I run DOS/Windows again, the D: partition is
gone (the partition table has been destroyed, presumably). It doesn't
matter if I partition the disk with the D: partition at the start or
end of the disk. On the other hand, if I try the same things using the
new prep, prep complains with
error 23: Not enough room for boot area
Aside from the notion of moving most of what's on C: to D: and installing
plan9 on C:, can anyone suggest what I'm doing wrong or what I might try?
Richard
>From 9fans-outgoing-owner Wed Jul 26 16:20:17 1995
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From: ahm@goonsquad.spies.com (Andreas Meyer)
Subject: Got it loaded. Now what?
To: 9fans (9fans)
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 15:20:59 -0400
Organization: The Internet Wiretap
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Okay, so I've grabbed the PC distribution from plan9.att.com
and seem to have it running reasonably well on my AT&T 6386/SX WGS.
(Although, it refuses to load on my 386DX40 clone. It says it doesn't see
my IDE drive?!).
So, short of downloading the man pages _en masse_, how do I get
more information? I've printed out most of the documents
available on the Web page under Volume 2.
Thanks!
Andy
--
Andreas Meyer, N2FYE Sustain. Endure. Evolve.
ahm@goonsquad.spies.com http://www.spies.com/~ahm/
>From 9fans-outgoing-owner Wed Jul 26 18:48:20 1995
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From: Scott Schwartz <schwartz@galapagos.cse.psu.edu>
To: 9fans
Message-Id: <95Jul26.174004edt.12762@galapagos.cse.psu.edu>
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 17:39:58 -0400
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Just out of curiosity, what sort of legal permission, if any, was required
to get Bela Lugosi et al's picture on the first edition cdrom?
>From 9fans-outgoing-owner Wed Jul 26 21:01:53 1995
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Message-Id: <199507262216.AAA14661@blah.math.tu-graz.ac.at>
To: 9fans
Subject: first tries
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 18:15:59 -0400
From: Brian Ward <bri@blah.math.tu-graz.ac.at>
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Ok, so I tried to install the floppy distribution on one of my PCs today,
and here's what my experiences were (roughly):
9 doesn't seem to want to talk to my Maxtor 7546A drive at all. This is a
plain one-year-old 540MB IDE drive that works fine with linux, so there
shouldn't be any problem with using non-BIOS-oriented I/O. More precisely,
when I booted the first time, it said that it couldn't find my primary DOS
partition, which sure isn't terribly informative, but at least "you will
have to change your hardware configuration" was somewhere close to the
point. After fiddling around with the disk and booting it to a shell, I found
that there's no hint of a /dev/hd0disk, etc, even though #H had been bound.
To make sure that I wasn't going totally nuts, I tried the same floppy on a
variety of other IDE disks (which I can't use at moment because there's
stuff on them). All of the other disks were recognized (/dev entries
showing up, etc), so there's something particular with this one. I don't
know if it's something with Maxtor as a vendor, because one of the other
disks is also a Maxtor. So tomorrow I'll do some shuffling, to see if it
installs ok on another disk.
(I tried the disk on a few different controllers and computers.)
So then to my "opinionated" comments, which may or may not mean anything to
you:
There were seemingly no diagnostics at all telling me if the bind #H failed.
In fact, in cpurc, they're all > /dev/null >[2=1]ed out. I got rid of those
and still didn't get anything. The same goes for the mounts after that,
except that they actually say something when they fail -- they tell you the
command failed (but don't say that they failed because the device didn't
exist). A little more feedback from these commands would have been nice.
The install program looks like the MS-DOS install program (which I grudgingly
had to run for the first time ever today. more on this later.). Admittedly,
I haven't gotten very far into it because of the above, but it's definitely
not my definition of pretty.
And about MS-DOS: I do hope this requirement can be dropped soon. I found
setting up MS-DOS to be quite painful. I can understand the need for
bootstrapping at first (linux and the "others" also had to do the same
thing in the early days), but let's please not get too used to it. :-) In
fact, the linux boot-loader should even be able to boot plan 9 if you
dropped it enough hints on the floor.
It's of course fun to play around a little with the mini-system on the boot
disk. Maybe that's just me.
Last and certainly not least: I (finally) got to see Plan 9 From Outer
Space in a Viennese theater last Sunday. How very excellent! An experience
no one should miss out on.
>From 9fans-outgoing-owner Wed Jul 26 21:40:56 1995
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To: 9fans
Subject: Test message
Cc: schwartz@daneel.cse.psu.edu
X-uri: <URL:http://www.cse.psu.edu/~ehrlich/>
X-Work-Address: Department of Computer Science and Engineering
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Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 21:10:38 -0400
From: Daniel R Ehrlich <ehrlich@daneel.cse.psu.edu>
Message-Id: <95Jul26.213307edt.45491@colossus.cse.psu.edu>
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Some people have reported problems with the 9fans mailing list. I am trying to
determine what's wrong. Please disregard this mail.
-- Dan Ehrlich <postmaster@cse.psu.edu>
>From 9fans-outgoing-owner Thu Jul 27 07:39:09 1995
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To: 9fans
Subject: second try
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 1995 07:37:49 -0400
From: Brian Ward <bri@blah.math.tu-graz.ac.at>
Sender: owner-9fans
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Reply-To: 9fans
Ok, so I tried on a different drive this morning and eventually got it to
work. The following information may or may not be useful:
I installed it on my notebook, which has a 340MB disk, 16MB RAM, and an
i486dx4/100. Linux was installed on this machine, but there was a 32MB
swap partition, so I had the bright idea to install the DOS and plan 9
partitions over that. I used one of my other linux boxen to prepare the
floppy (had to replace the "prep" command on it), and proceeded. You don't
need to have much of DOS at all on the disk; all you have to do is:
- boot with 1st ms-dos disk and exit the setup program as soon as it starts
- "fdisk" and make a tiny DOS partition (I used 4MB but it could be
smaller, I'm sure)
- computer will reboot when you exit fdisk (stupid hardware, stupid software)
- do step 1 again (wince harder this time)
- "format c: /s"
- if you have linux installed on the disk, you need to do an fdisk /mbr
(please see linux notes below!)
- replace DOS trash-disk with plan 9 boot disk and type "b".
Here's where I ran into trouble. The place on the disk I was planning to
install plan 9 was in between my / and /usr linux partitions. The plan 9
boot disk booted and seemingly took the first partition on the disk (my /)
to be the DOS partition and when I told it to install the plan 9 DOS files,
it waltzed right over that. I suspected this when I rebooted and there was
no plan9 directory on the DOS partition. I knew it when I tried to boot
linux from floppy. So we now know that plan 9's install doesn't seem to
know the right way to find the "primary DOS partition."
The moral of this story is to back up everything on the disk beforehand even
if it is on another partition, because plan 9 will zing it ruthlessly --
even though I installed using the "fixed" prep command, it still went ahead
and zapped my /usr partition. I have a feeling that the fix was for
multiple partitions directly after the DOS trash (which seemingly has to be
the first on the disk) and not anything that may be after where you intend
to put plan 9. I'll try to confirm this later.
Ok, so now after / was gone, I just went ahead and put the DOS partition at
the beginning of the disk (as I described above) and went ahead with the
install. ("C'mon Bullwinkle.. that trick NEVER works.." "This time for
sure, Rocky!") Ok, this time it did work. However:
I couldn't get it to recognize the built-in PS/2 trackball or a serial Mouse
Systems mouse. Finally, I grudgingly pulled the Logitech MouseMan out of
my other Linux box, and that did work. I suppose I have to buy another
MouseMan, anyway (they cost $65 here, you know.). It didn't do 640x480x8
vga right, but it does do monochrome ok, as it should. I'm not surprised by
this because my notebook has a Cirrus 6440 chipset and that's still kind of a
rare beast (although XFree86 3.1.1 supports it). All of this fiddling
around meant a lot of rebooting and changing the plan9.ini file (through
the plan 9 install program, probably a silly thing to do). When booting the
install program, the kernel correctly says that I have a 2-slotted intel
xxxxx PCMCIA chipset in the notebook, but when I put in my 3Com 3C589 and
configure it in, it screws up and identifies it as a 1-slot Cirrus Logic
controller. Oh well, I'll see about it later.
It's really cool. In particular, acme feels great and is extremely
well-done. I can't find my break key (tried plokta) - don't know if this is
due to the smaller notebook keyboard or what. Anyway, it's an excellent
job, but I'd definitely recommend getting another hard disk before
installing.
>From 9fans-outgoing-owner Thu Jul 27 08:32:33 1995
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From: rob@plan9.att.com
To: 9fans
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 1995 08:31:11 -0400
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Those of you who received the first distribution were asked to mail
plan.9@research.att.com with questions. We are turning off that
mail alias; use this 9fans list as a first place for queries from now on.
Thanks.
>From 9fans-outgoing-owner Thu Jul 27 15:59:14 1995
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Organization: Computer Science and Engineering, Penn State University
From: ehrlich
To: 9fans-outgoing@cse
Subject: Test email
Reply-to: ehrlich
Versions: dmail 1.9d/makemail 2.3
Message-Id: <95Jul27.155644edt.45588@colossus.cse.psu.edu>
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 1995 15:56:42 -0400
I have heard that folks are not receiving messages from 9fans@cse.psu.edu.
If you are reading this, please reply and let me know.
Thanks,
Dan Ehrlich <postmaster@cse.psu.edu>
--
Dan Ehrlich - Systems Analyst - PSU Computer Science and Engineering
"Universities should be safe havens where ruthless examination of realities
will not be distorted by the aim to please or inhibited by the risk of
displeasure." - Kingman Brewster
2.6 <EE26E805> fingerprint = 5C 01 7F 57 B0 AB 68 72 04 23 B9 BD 27 AD 85 60
echo '[q]sa[ln0=aln256%Pln256/snlbx]sb3135071790101768542287578439snlbxq'|dc
>From 9fans-outgoing-owner Thu Jul 27 18:23:30 1995
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Organization: Computer Science and Engineering, Penn State University
From: ehrlich
To: 9fans
Subject: Mailing list meltdown
Versions: dmail 1.9d/makemail 2.3
Message-Id: <95Jul27.175736edt.45594@colossus.cse.psu.edu>
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 1995 17:57:34 -0400
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Reply-To: 9fans
It seems that sometime between 15:00 on July 18th and 09:45 on July 19th
the file that holds the 9fans mailing list got truncated to zero bytes.
I have restored the list as of the 18th and added anyone who subscribed
since then. Sorry for the inconvienece. All messages are stored in the
archive. So just send majorodomo@cse.psu.edu a message containing
index 9fans
for a current list.
-- Dan Ehrlich <postmaster@cse.psu.edu>
--
Dan Ehrlich - Systems Analyst - PSU Computer Science and Engineering
"Universities should be safe havens where ruthless examination of realities
will not be distorted by the aim to please or inhibited by the risk of
displeasure." - Kingman Brewster
2.6 <EE26E805> fingerprint = 5C 01 7F 57 B0 AB 68 72 04 23 B9 BD 27 AD 85 60
echo '[q]sa[ln0=aln256%Pln256/snlbx]sb3135071790101768542287578439snlbxq'|dc
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 34+ messages in thread
* Returned mail
@ 1995-04-12 4:20 MAILER-DAEMON
0 siblings, 0 replies; 34+ messages in thread
From: MAILER-DAEMON @ 1995-04-12 4:20 UTC (permalink / raw)
Your mail could not be delivered because of the following reason:
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Executing: /usr/lib/mail/localmail gnenych
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----- Unsent message follows -----
>From ncrgw1!cse.psu.edu!9fans Wed Apr 12 00:30 EDT 1995 remote from ncrhub4
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From: Dave Mason <dmason@plg.uwaterloo.ca>
To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu
Subject: Plan 9 encumbrance
In-Reply-To: <95Apr9.002400edt.45919@colossus.cse.psu.edu>
References: <95Apr9.002400edt.45919@colossus.cse.psu.edu>
Message-Id: <95Apr11.200302edt.23549@plg.uwaterloo.ca>
Date: Tue, 11 Apr 1995 20:02:56 -0400
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dmr@plan9.att.com writes:
> The terms of the new Plan 9 distribution will be much more liberal
[... and look completely reasonable ]
> By contrast, Unix source licenses were and are fearsome documents,
> with references to trade-secret "methods and concepts" and
> restrictions on use even for educational purposes.
>
> Fundamentally, USL sued BSDI and then UC Berkeley for producing
> a Unix clone (and lost). BSDI and UCB's CSRG thought this
> was a worthwhile thing to do because the real thing was overpriced
> and hard to get. Plan 9 will be cheap and easy to get.
> Situations change, and we learn.
My question is: If I get and read and enjoy your distribution, and
then decide I want to write a commercial equivalent of some part of
Plan 9 (say my own implementation of Alef to run under Windows-NT --
don't worry, I already went and washed my mouth out), what will AT&T
and/or its lawyers say about it? Or I think I see how to build the
kernel better? As an OS researcher, this is a *very* relevant
question for me. While the USL silliness was going on I was thanking
my lucky stars that I'd never looked at any Unix system code.
What about the authors of vsta (a plan-9 inspired system about to
release version 1.4)? Must they *not* look at the plan-9 code? They
currently don't use exactly the message format that plan-9
does... what if they change to use the right one?
Very much looking forward to the release... if I can look at it.
../Dave
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 34+ messages in thread
* Returned mail
@ 1995-04-05 12:18 MAILER-DAEMON
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From: MAILER-DAEMON @ 1995-04-05 12:18 UTC (permalink / raw)
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From: forsyth@plan9.cs.york.ac.uk
Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 06:15:10 -0400
To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu
subject: plan 9 and linux
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>>How is it compared to Linux?
apples and galaxies.
they do different things. linux is a self-contained operating
system that can attach to a network. plan 9 really is a distributed system.
Linux now seems to attempt to track Posix closely, with all that that entails.
by contrast, although plan 9 has useful ansi/posix emulation environments --
and that's certainly convenient when importing or exporting Unix programs --
it's definitely not the most sensible way of using plan 9.
it isn't a `leaner unix'. indeed, if you approach it that way,
you will probably be disappointed.
plan 9 provides a number of components that can be put together on a network to form
one (secure, distributed) computing system; even an apparently `standalone'
plan 9 system at home can link itself smoothly to the name space --
and thus processors, devices and network interfaces -- of a bigger system.
although linux does very well -- the leanest and most effective
unix-like system on a PC -- in my experience, plan 9 easily is less demanding of hardware than
other general purpose operating systems on any given platform.
for instance, at work my terminal is a 386sx/16 with 4mbytes
with an ET4000 ISA graphics card and NE2000 card. i have a small slow
seagate IDE disc for booting & paging, but it doesn't page much.
at the moment this pathetic machine is running 30 processes
including the window system 8B=, seemail, `cpu' to the cpu server
samterm (to remote sam on the CPU server), a local 8B= window for commands,
dossrv (makes DOS file systems on disc & floppy visible in the plan 9 name space),
and supporting commands (eg, kernel protocol processes, exportfs exporting
the terminal's name space to the cpu server). (by the way, i can access
the terminal's diskette device and/or DOS file system transparently
from the cpu server, just as i access the terminal's keyboard, mouse and screen.)
here is a ps:
forsyth 1 0:00 0:00 40K Wait init
bootes 2 0:00 0:00 0K Wakeme alarm
bootes 3 0:06 0:00 0K Wakeme ether0kproc
bootes 4 0:00 0:00 0K Wakeme tcpack
bootes 5 0:00 0:00 0K Wakeme tcpflow
bootes 7 0:00 0:00 0K Wakeme ilack
forsyth 8 0:00 0:00 0K Idle pager
forsyth 9 0:08 0:25 352K Read 8B=
forsyth 13 0:01 0:02 48K Read cs
forsyth 17 0:00 0:00 0K Wakeme floppy
forsyth 23 0:00 0:00 704K Read dossrv
forsyth 26 0:00 0:00 40K Read arpd
forsyth 28 0:00 0:00 0K Wakeme uart0
forsyth 36 0:00 0:01 196K Read 8B=
forsyth 38 0:00 0:01 196K Read 8B=
forsyth 47 0:00 0:00 132K Read samterm
forsyth 49 0:00 0:00 20K Read rx
forsyth 52 0:00 0:00 124K Read samterm
forsyth 53 0:00 0:01 124K Read samterm
forsyth 54 0:00 0:00 124K Read samterm
forsyth 55 0:00 0:00 124K Read samterm
forsyth 58 0:00 0:00 20K Read rx
forsyth 59 0:00 0:00 108K Read seemail
forsyth 65 0:00 0:00 28K Wait cpu
forsyth 66 0:00 0:01 332K Read exportfs
forsyth 67 0:00 0:00 332K Rendez exportfs
forsyth 68 0:00 0:00 332K Read exportfs
forsyth 70 0:00 0:00 104K Wait rc
forsyth 75 0:00 0:00 32K Read ps
is it paging frantically?
term% cat /dev/swap
374/416 memory 92/4000 swap
no: in fact the pager is currently idle. presumably it has turfed out
most of dossrv since i'm not using it. (the memory sizes above
can't just be added up: there's a lot of shared text & data there.)
now, you definitely don't want to compile much on this thing -- for one
thing it hasn't got a floating-point unit -- and it's certainly not
as snappy as a bigger 486 at home with more memory and a reasonable graphics card.
nevertheless: try getting an X server to run on a similar configuration
with several xterms, rlogins (inadequate substitute for `cpu'), a mail monitoring
window, and samterm. it's certainly true that you'll stand the best
chance of doing it with linux, though, compared (say) to solaris/486.
although i haven't made a complete study of linux,
i'd say the system interfaces in the plan 9 cpu/terminal kernel are simpler yet more general than
those in Linux; perhaps more importantly, the plan 9 kernel was
intended to be portable, and support multiprocessors from the start.
aside: there's currently a lot of ignorant hype in the media
about the brilliance of having a Hardware Abstraction Layer in making a certain
o/s portable, but it's really no big deal. like older portable operating systems,
plan 9's portability interface is a small collection of functions and
data structures. no fuss.
outside the kernel, linux -- reasonably enough for
a unix/posix clone -- simply uses all the freely available software
for Unix-like systems that anyone can be bothered to port. a lot
of that is Big and Complicated. by contrast, although many of the
older Unix commands are in Plan 9 at least in name,
Plan 9's commands are freshly written. (the few things left from the ancien
rC)gime -- notably `troff' -- have at least had a facelift.)
a lot of crufty crud has been left behind. after all, as andrew hume once put it:
``crud that isn't paged in is still crud''.
still, that's old stuff; worthy but dull.
the really interesting bits are the new things, including:
the protocol 9P that binds everything together
the file server, and its `dump' file system
per-process name space
union mounts
Unicode
user-level file servers
shared memory multiprocess servers, using lean (threadbare?) processes
cpu
the window system 8B=
Acme (is that named after the Acme Construction Co. in the Roadrunner cartoons?)
FAST C compilers; simpler C library interface, and
every compiler is a cross compiler
simple support for multiple target architectures
the concurrent programming language Alef
acid
for the administrator: a coherent approach to describing a network,
and best of all from my point of view, it hasn't got BIND.
if you want a fairly conventional X11/Unix environment on your PC, Linux
is a reasonable choice. Plan 9 has different aims.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 34+ messages in thread
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