From mboxrd@z Thu Jan  1 00:00:00 1970
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 00:02:47 +0100
From: forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk
Subject: [9fans] using sam
Topicbox-Message-UUID: 7ca12064-eac8-11e9-9e20-41e7f4b1d025
Message-ID: <19980822230247.0kKjZ-8hXPMR0h3af58AknPWd-xcSG3dtmOSOPNSGm0@z>

>>I really havn't looked at acme. Assumed it was some sort of
>>integrated edit/compile environment that is so popular in the
>>DOS/Windows world, so avoided it. Sounds like maybe I should

no, acme is an integrating environment -- even ingratiating --
not an `integrated' one, and an acme-like environment is not found in the DOS/Windows world as far
as i know (outside the Oberon environment).

>What you really want is acme's chorded cut & paste. It's the One
>True Way. Didn't Plan 9 sam have this? 8.5 did, I'm sure.

mark wilkinson did made the acme-style chording available (nearly)
in sam; the changes should be somewhere on the plan9/sam
lists. 8-1/2 does already implement them.
acme users often have used them in 8-1/2 without realising
they are there -- they have become second nature.

elliott is right that i don't think all that much of adding
cursor keys to a mouse-based system: certainly once
up/down movement in non-proportional text is included --
the rules used by
the systems i've seen that combine them seem unpredictable to me.
i'm more neutral about left/right
movement (but what do you do with the selection?).

beginning to edit with the mouse is a bit like learning to drive:
at first it might seem strange and perhaps even dangerous
to have to move your hand away from the wheel to shift gears --
that's a common complaint (especially with manual transmission) --
but it's simple, and effective once you get the hang of it.
at some point you cease to notice and focus on the task at hand,
the road ahead.  when editing with the mouse, there's no doubt that
the acme chording rules make it much smoother and more
natural.

are there better, more natural approaches to editing?
almost certainly, but i suspect they don't involve
cursor keys, though they might require something quite
different from a mouse.