From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Message-Id: <19A932FB-8073-441C-AF25-4E4FC1317A3E@bitblocks.com> From: Bakul Shah To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (iPhone Mail 7E18) Date: Fri, 6 May 2011 09:47:49 -0700 References: <20110506042334.GA5763@fangle.proxima.alt.za> <201105052345.27828.errno@cox.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] Compiling 9atom kernel WAS: Re: spaces in filenames Topicbox-Message-UUID: df846354-ead6-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025 On May 6, 2011, at 8:59 AM, John Floren wrote: > On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 8:45 AM, Bakul Shah > wrote: >> Well designed documents that use multiple fonts, graphical >> elements, white >> space, colors, pictures are far easier on one's eyes. > > Yes, and then on the other hand, you have web pages. Oh, wait, you > weren't talking about postscript documents? :-) > >> It would be great if >> such pages can be viewed, and even better, created on plan9. HTML >> isn't just >> for browsers anymore! On the Mac there are some great apps for >> journal or >> blog writing etc that use the webkit (not everyone uses MS word or >> pages). >> In a way a good webkit can *vitalize* plan9. So more power to errno >> if he >> wants to do this! > > Of course you can create documents using multiple fonts, graphical > elements, white space, colors, pictures on Plan 9. I do it in troff > from time to time. I also do it by writing HTML in a text editor (like > Acme), which is also how pretty much all the real web developers (as > opposed to dabblers in FrontPage) do it too (except they also use CSS > and real programming language backends). The idea that you need a > special application built around WEBKIT of all things (I just vomited > in my shoes a little) just to write a blog is utterly ridiculous. Postscript is fine for viewing but if you want editable pages it doesn't cut it. If you want to collaborate with non techies on other platform, troff, raw HTML or TeX is quite limiting. Apps such as journler could be created by one person because of the webkit. They are very easy to use and you don't have to be a "real web developer" to write. I don't particularly like HTML/XML but it has become ubiquitous as a portable format. At least with a good app I don't have to look at raw HTML (just as programming in a HLL means you don't have to look at the bletcherous x86 code 99.99% of time). > Now, I'd love to see webkit ported, because I'd love to have a > fully-featured web browser on Plan 9. However, call me cynical, but > I'm a little concerned that we're seeing yet another repetition of > that familiar pattern: New guy comes in, wants to be Plan 9 messiah by > porting [gcc/web browser] or writing drivers, makes grandiose plans, > everyone points out the flaws in said plans which came about from not > understanding Plan 9 yet, new guy disappears. There is that danger. 9 out of 10 (or may be even 99 out of 100) will disappear. It can get tiring but so what. We don't have to point out the flaws! Let them discover on their own & learn the hard way (the only way people learn). I prefer to encourage new people even knowing most of the time we won't benefit. Not to say you are wrong or I am right; just a different point of view to consider!