Re: [9fans] Inferno magazine ad

Re: [9fans] Inferno magazine ad

[dmr]

[Boyd] take[s] dennis ritchie's position:

    unix has retarded o/s research by 10 years and linux has
    retarded it by 20.

Where did I say that?  Rob's famous slide show is bolder on
similar points.  I'm more the let-a-hundred-flowers-bloom
kind of guy.  Well, maybe I said the 10 years part in some
form, but it was a while ago.

	Dennis

Re: [9fans] Inferno magazine ad

[Boyd Roberts]

From: <dmr@plan9.bell-labs.com>

> [Boyd] take[s] dennis ritchie's position:
>
>     unix has retarded o/s research by 10 years and linux has
>     retarded it by 20.
>
> Where did I say that?

i believe i heard you express that in the unix room in 1996.

Re: [9fans] Inferno magazine ad

[forsyth]

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it was an oversight, possibly because we take it for granted.
i'm afraid i saw the advert. before it went out and didn't notice that.
we didn't leave it out intentionally.

we've taken some stick for that advert too, mainly from people that
didn't realise that `Linux' and Embedded Linux' aren't the same thing,
and are not always available under the same terms (hence, `Maybe').

that was the first advert.  there's a second one that homes in
on distributed systems.


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From: Richard Miller <miller@hamnavoe.demon.co.uk>
To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu
Subject: Re: [9fans] Inferno magazine ad
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 20:13:53 0000
Message-ID: <E14NhAm-000HFF-0Y@anchor-post-34.mail.demon.net>

It seems a shame that the list of 'Emulated Environments' for Inferno
doesn't mention Plan 9.  Why hide the brightest light under a bushel?

-- Richard Miller

Re: [9fans] Inferno magazine ad

[Michael Jeffrey]

forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk wrote in message
>we've taken some stick for that advert too, mainly from people that
>didn't realise that `Linux' and Embedded Linux' aren't the same thing,
>and are not always available under the same terms (hence, `Maybe').


Some of this stick and confusion has come from well known figures within
the Open Source movement (have a look at the interview with
Bruce Perens at http://forums.itworld.com) who ought to
know better.  There is an almost
blind assumption that any product with Linux in the name is
Open Source.  Here is my response (more or less) to
the accusation by Perens that we were spreading fud about
Linux.

"Our ads have not been aimed at Linux at all but
rather those embedded Linux distributions that
benefit from being eponymously named after a
significant contributor to the Open Source movement
whilst simultaneously discarding many of his princples.

With one or two notable exceptions, most embedded
linux distributions attract royalties and do not provide
access to all the source code under an open source licence."

Re: [9fans] Inferno magazine ad

[cLIeNUX user]

humbubba@smart.net
>
>forsyth@caldo.demon.co.uk wrote in message
>>we've taken some stick for that advert too, mainly from people that
>>didn't realise that `Linux' and Embedded Linux' aren't the same thing,
>>and are not always available under the same terms (hence, `Maybe').
>
>
>Some of this stick and confusion has come from well known figures within
>the Open Source movement (have a look at the interview with
>Bruce Perens at http://forums.itworld.com) who ought to
>know better.  There is an almost
>blind assumption that any product with Linux in the name is
>Open Source.  Here is my response (more or less) to
>the accusation by Perens that we were spreading fud about
>Linux.
>
>"Our ads have not been aimed at Linux at all but
>rather those embedded Linux distributions that
>benefit from being eponymously named after a
>significant contributor to the Open Source movement
>whilst simultaneously discarding many of his princples.
>
>With one or two notable exceptions, most embedded
>linux distributions attract royalties and do not provide
>access to all the source code under an open source licence."

It's interesting that Linux is becoming Forth from the top down.
Embedded has kept Forth alive. This is because you can make money on it.
Forth is too flexible to make money on as software only. The interpreter
includes the (usually threaded-code) compiler. Your first customer can
easily become your first competitor. This is the problem that drives my
Linux/GNU/unix distro. Open source is clearly technically superior. The
unix/Internet community has shown this, and Forth shows this by the
astounding elegance of a compiling interpreter.

Another market paradigm is needed. Unfortunately, no one with any clout is
proposing or initiating one. GPL is orthogonal to this problem. This is
indicated by the problems of GPL and LGPL vis-a-vis a Forth. Neither GPL
or LGPL really addresses how Forth works. The ASCAP/BMI mechanism of
artist royalties does. On the radio the compensatable entity is the song.
In Forth it's the word. In unix it's the file.


Rick Hohensee
www.clienux.com

Re: [9fans] Inferno magazine ad

[Richard Miller]

It seems a shame that the list of 'Emulated Environments' for Inferno
doesn't mention Plan 9.  Why hide the brightest light under a bushel?

-- Richard Miller

[9fans] Inferno magazine ad

[andrey mirtchovski]

I received yesterday (by mistake?) issue #1 of "Embedded Linux Journal"
(which is published by the same people who publish LJ)...

Anyway, as much as I think noone on this list will be interested in the
journal itself, I do think some of you will like the Inferno ad I saw in
it.. It is a full page ad somewhere in the middle of the magazine and I
am absolutely sure it will please Boyd :-)

I'm sending a link to a scanned picture because I'm not sure how the
list will react if spammed with an image of this size...

If anyone wants a better quality scan I can provide without
hesitation...

here it is:

http://homepage.usask.ca/~aam396/Inferno.jpg

andrey

ps: I don't follow the inferno newsgroup, but positively someone will
inform them about the ad, right?

Re: [9fans] Inferno magazine ad

[Boyd Roberts]

From: andrey mirtchovski <aam396@mail.usask.ca>
> It is a full page ad somewhere in the middle of the magazine and I
> am absolutely sure it will please Boyd :-)

kick ass!  cool!

thanks for the scan's url, avoiding jpeg's flying around the list.

vita could have added an extra line :-)

    Does It Suck                  No     Yes

or even worse:

    Has Boyd Contributed To It    Yes    No

'embedded linux'?  i could think of the odd thing to embed it in :-)

Re: [9fans] Inferno magazine ad

[Christian Smith]

Not been on this list long, but I guess you are to Linux what Linux users
are to Windows?

;)

Christian

BTW, is it just Linux you spit venom at, or all other OSes?

On Tue, 30 Jan 2001, Boyd Roberts wrote:

>From: andrey mirtchovski <aam396@mail.usask.ca>
>> It is a full page ad somewhere in the middle of the magazine and I
>> am absolutely sure it will please Boyd :-)
>
>kick ass!  cool!
>
>thanks for the scan's url, avoiding jpeg's flying around the list.
>
>vita could have added an extra line :-)
>
>    Does It Suck                  No     Yes
>
>or even worse:
>
>    Has Boyd Contributed To It    Yes    No
>
>'embedded linux'?  i could think of the odd thing to embed it in :-)
>
>

-- 
    /"\
    \ /    ASCII RIBBON CAMPAIGN - AGAINST HTML MAIL 
     X                           - AGAINST MS ATTACHMENTS
    / \

Re: [9fans] Inferno magazine ad

[Boyd Roberts]

From: Christian Smith <csmith@micromuse.com>


> BTW, is it just Linux you spit venom at, or all other OSes?

you think that's 'venom'?

i take dennis ritchie's position:

    unix has retarded o/s research by 10 years and linux has
    retarded it by 20.

i also found today this great reference to dante's inferno:

    ... there is a special place of torment reserved for
    those have been neutral in life.  Their sin is regarded
    so grave that they are not even allowed into hell, only
    its vestibule, separated from hell by the river Archeron.
    For their sin of indecision and vacillation, Dante devised
    an appropriate and awful torment: they were condemned
    to rush for ever behind a banner "which whirls with aimless
    speed as though it would never take a stand, while also
    being stung by swarms of persuing hornets".

        -- Deliver Us From Evil, William Shawcross, pp. 32-33.
           ISBN 0-7475-4844-7

what is the point of yet another bloated unix?  the time to
wipe the slate clean was 10 years ago, but the 2nd ed price
may have scared off some people as well as the fact that
'plan 9 is not unix'.  a blinkered unix/linux hack will
stick with that 20+ year old techology.

Re: [9fans] Inferno magazine ad

[Jim Bennett]

Christian Smith wrote:

<snip>

> --
>     /"\
>     \ /    ASCII RIBBON CAMPAIGN - AGAINST HTML MAIL
>      X                           - AGAINST MS ATTACHMENTS
>     / \


As a "lurker" on this list, I see and learn quite a bit.

I have to admit, though, that your "sig" caught my attention.

Instead of a blatant rip-off, I figured I'll ask:

Would it be OK with you if I use it ?

JB
-- 
---------------------------------
 "The future is not what it used to be."
                       Anonymous

Re: [9fans] Inferno magazine ad

[Christian Smith]

Sure, I ripped it off from a colleague anyway:)

On Wed, 31 Jan 2001, Jim Bennett wrote:

>
>Christian Smith wrote:
>
><snip>
>
>> --
>>     /"\
>>     \ /    ASCII RIBBON CAMPAIGN - AGAINST HTML MAIL
>>      X                           - AGAINST MS ATTACHMENTS
>>     / \
>
>
>As a "lurker" on this list, I see and learn quite a bit.
>
>I have to admit, though, that your "sig" caught my attention.
>
>Instead of a blatant rip-off, I figured I'll ask:
>
>Would it be OK with you if I use it ?
>
>JB
>

--
    /"\
    \ /    ASCII RIBBON CAMPAIGN - AGAINST HTML MAIL
     X                           - AGAINST MS ATTACHMENTS
    / \