From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: Lucio De Re To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Publish and be damned. Message-ID: <20010420163931.A6978@cackle.proxima.alt.za> References: <20010420075428.A6221@cackle.proxima.alt.za> <007201c0c994$81ad3990$e0b6c6d4@SOMA> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii In-Reply-To: <007201c0c994$81ad3990$e0b6c6d4@SOMA>; from Boyd Roberts on Fri, Apr 20, 2001 at 02:22:02PM +0200 Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 16:39:31 +0200 Topicbox-Message-UUID: 875f2388-eac9-11e9-9e20-41e7f4b1d025 On Fri, Apr 20, 2001 at 02:22:02PM +0200, Boyd Roberts wrote: > why not just manage a web page with links to the originals > as a first cut. then if it works out move on to a more > complex solution? In reply to Boyd... I suppose I'm trying to take ownership away from the originators, because I see it as slowing down development. Let me try to explain by example: I have an unfinished game (mastermind or bulls and cows) for Plan 9 I threw together to get a feeling for the graphics. I am reluctant to post it as it stands because of the personal involvement, possible criticism, any number of embarrassments due to the unfinished nature of the program. This way, it will never be anything more than a curiosity. It is my prerogative to keep it hidden, but it would probably be a lot better if I dumped it on a CVS archive (I'll come back to your question in a moment) and worked on it in moments of interest, let anyone else also contribute to it. > plan to throw one away, you will anyway ... > If I remember correctly Brooks also emphasised the need to store program documentation with the program text, and CVS adds historical information, which I certainly value (and so do Bell Labs inmates, it would seem :-) > the web is well established, but CVS? > I appreciate that CVS is only a partial solution. It is, to my mind, as good as we've been able to make readily available; better solutions may exist, but they're not in the realm of free software. I'm also aware of forsyth's comment that the DUMP filesystem in Plan 9 is adequate, but somehow I can't be convinced that it provides all the benefits of CVS. And, quite honestly, I could use more features than CVS offers, although I'd be hard put to explain exactly what features I miss. The nice bit about CVS is that it is a useful tool on which to base improvements, which makes a pleasant change from the more common approach on this list of criticising (we all do it, it's not my intention to offend anyone) without offering a better alternative, at least not an immediately practical one. In reply to private mail from Russ: I still need to spend some effort to make the CVS server accessible. What I feel a project like this needs is the encouragement of Bell Labs, at the very minimum an understanding that its purpose is not contrary to Bell Labs' intentions, and that there is a place where mutually exclusive objectives can be negotiated to some compromise. I suppose we could draw up a mission statement or memorandum of understanding that all participants could accept and work to. To Nemo: I've been reading your commentary, and would like to feed back to you some corrections, as well as obtain the most recent copy, in one form or another. Would you consider making it CVS-accessible in source form? To everyone :-) There may be intellectual property issues and personal interest issues I have overlooked as I perceive intellectual property as purely a reflection of my own barely controlled need to _own_ things. Please be encouraged to make suggestions. I am tempted to call this CVS idea the "plan 9 software forge", and perhaps we should just be using sourcefourge anyway (I didn't think of that earlier). If people think we should head in that direction, I have no objection. ++L