From mboxrd@z Thu Jan  1 00:00:00 1970
From: Dan Cross <cross@math.psu.edu>
Message-Id: <200106181456.KAA26414@augusta.math.psu.edu>
To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu
Subject: Re: [9fans] source code as data not text
In-Reply-To: <200106180852.KAA04199@boris.cd.chalmers.se>
References: <00d701c0f78d$fb26d750$6401a8c0@freeze2k>
Cc: 
Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 10:56:45 -0400
Topicbox-Message-UUID: bcd6b6fc-eac9-11e9-9e20-41e7f4b1d025

In article <200106180852.KAA04199@boris.cd.chalmers.se> you write:
>
>  [...]
>
>Syntax highlighting does catch errors.  Does it make you lazier about not
>making errors in the first place?  How can we test this hypothesis?  I
>know people who never used line editors like ed extensively are 
>surprised when old ed hackers sit down and write 20, 50, 100 lines of
>code, one line right after each other, without going back and fiddling with
>bits.  If you started writing programs when there was no cursor addressing,
>or screen editors (or they were banned because of the load they 
>put on those old machines) this is no trick at all.

I think that there has to be a break-even point.  Before that point,
the tools are too difficult, thus too restricting.  Afterwards, the
tools are too easy and make one lazy.  Does syntax highlighting help?
I don't think so; in my experience, programmers who use syntax
highlighting editors don't turn out code as good as that produced by
programmers who use a non-syntax highlighting editor, and they
certainly don't do it as quickly.  On the other hand, I've programmed
using ed, and I don't particularly want to go back (though it's really
handy for some things!).

Regarding using a database to store code, please don't confuse the term
``database'' with ``relational database.''  Storing code in an RDBMS
certainly doesn't buy you anything, as code doesn't map well to the
relational model (though I suppose one could argue that the relational
model could implicitly encapsulate the functionality of mk and its ilk
without additional code).  An object database with versioning, on the
other hand, might be used to house a repository of code, but that's not
the issue at hand; the issue is a programmer editting within the
context of a database at all times.  I don't think this is a good idea,
if for no other reason than yes, it defies the tool-based approach.
Specifically, as Nigel pointed out, I'm forced into using a vendors
proprietary tools to edit my source.  Bye bye acme?  No thanks.

Besides, tools like CVS, Perforce, etc, already do what the object
database would do for me, but do so using normal text files (okay;
perforce uses a database on the ``back end'').  I use these things
in industry all the time (despite my email address :-), and they
can come in really handy.  However, I almost never use a syntax
highlighting editor (unless I'm doing something really repeditive),
and I never use a database to store code in my directory.

I do use shell scripts and text-based tools all the time.  Good God,
I'd cut off my hands and stop programming forever if I couldn't.

	- Dan C.