From mboxrd@z Thu Jan  1 00:00:00 1970
Message-Id: <200108161929.UAA31601@localhost.localdomain>
To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu
Subject: Re: [9fans] User Interface 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 16 Aug 2001 08:28:29 GMT."
             <3B7AB184.3030106@xs4all.nl> 
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From: Steve Kilbane <steve@whitecrow.demon.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 20:29:57 +0100
Topicbox-Message-UUID: dedd28d0-eac9-11e9-9e20-41e7f4b1d025

> More sense than making this piece of crap and then blaming users if they 
> don't appreciate it?

Not so. If it's not appreciated, fine. If you don't like it, fine. If you
disagree with it, then a discussion is always appreciated. Insulting it
because you can't be bothered to think is a different matter.

> I think insults can work out in two way's. Either 
> the software designers come up with something better, or there will be 
> nothing left to insult.

Insults don't help. Destructive criticism isn't useful. Constructive
criticism is.


> I am very willing to learn new things. This OS, however does not invite 
> a me to learn about it.

Why not? What is it that's missing, that would "invite" you to learn?
Most of us started with the published papers. (Anyone out there using
Plan 9 who *didn't* devour all the papers first chance they got?)

> For your information I finally figured how to 
> operate 'acme' and 'sam' and I still think it is stinks.

It's an opinion. Could do with some justification, though.

> My 
> motivation is not to put up with any illconceived idea about how a 
> computer should be operated.

And yet, your first example was notepad?

> These new ideas won't mean a thing if you can't get ordinary human 
> beings to work with it.

Sorry? You apparently have missed the "Research" part of Plan 9's
origins.

> Then why is it for sale? To hurt users? If it is just an excercise in 
> building a distributed operating system, why let  it out of the lab?

Because people in this forum begged them to. Because the papers were
published, demonstrating new ways of assembling and using a system, and
enough people liked those ways enough to want to use them.


> And I don't want to hear excuses like: if a user can't operate our 
> software, we are not to blame; this user must be stupid, or: I can 
> operate this software, so logicly if I can, anyone can.

Then don't hear them. No-one's forcing you to read this, just as no-one's
forcing you to use Plan 9. If it's not for you, fine: go use something
else with our blessing. Maybe you'll find something that suits you. Stay
around and discuss things calmly and rationally, if you like, but please
don't just hang around to whine. It does no-one any good.

steve