From mboxrd@z Thu Jan  1 00:00:00 1970
To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu
Subject: Re: [9fans] GUI toolkit for Plan 9
From: anothy@cosym.net
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Message-Id: <20020301172109.39A3B19A6B@mail.cse.psu.edu>
Date: Fri,  1 Mar 2002 12:21:02 -0500
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// However, one way to decrease the risk is simply to spend more
// effort in care and fixing bugs.  Merely adding a new component
// need not increase risk; it simply means that if you want to bring
// the risk down to where it was before, you have to expend more
// effort.

exactly. but even the gcc folks don't have infinite time/effort. and
i'd assert that the time it takes to maintain a fixed bug likelyhood
increases nearly geometrically (certainly much more than linearly)
with the volume of code.

i do not dispute that the gcc maintainers spend alot of effort
trying to find and eliminate bugs. i simply don't think they spend
enough (because they don't _have_ enough) given the size and
complexity of their code.

i'm certainly willing to grant that agressively-optimizing
compilers like gcc have their place, and i don't think anyone here
has disputed that (comments about gcc specifically are a different
issue entirely). what i think people (including me) take issue with
is your early assertion that 8c (&c.), for _not_ being in that family,
is a "cute toy" (your words).

i think you're under the impression that people here are somehow
making "an argument for why GCC is somehow *bad* for having
such optimizations" (again, you). rather, what i think people are
arguing is that GCC is bad for including optimizations beyond the
maintainer's ability to keep bugs to near-zero.

perhaps (as in maybe) the assertion that compiler optimizers
explicitly consider it an acceptable tradeoff to introduce potential
bugs for probable speed improvements is a bit strong, but the
fact remains that that's what they do, implicitly. while i'd be hard
pressed to find anyone say that outright, you can certainly tell
where a person's priorities lay by where they spend their time.
ア