From: Bengt Kleberg <eleberg@cbe.ericsson.se>
To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu
Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: [9fans] samuel (fwd)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 16:24:43 +0100 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <200203041524.g24FOhP14640@cbe.ericsson.se> (raw)
> what terrible languages are you envisioning that would be so
> difficult for humans to read as to _require_ the use of external
> help? the language
>
> #!/bin/rc
> cat $* | tr '^@' '()' | lisp
>
> would benefit from ^-@ matching, but aside from contrived examples
> i can't understand what more you want your text editor to do.
I would like for the text editor to tell me (with a single click) where
the start/end of a construction (be it function/if/while/...) is, if i
am at the end/start. sort of balancing the parantheses(sp?).
this is only neccessary if the language is not always visually balanced, like
a few languages are (ex: python).
> The various ML dialects share the same flaw in their syntax.
> They lack a simple property I call editor friendliness. An editor
> friendly language has the property that a simple calculation
> is all that is needed to locate the beginning of an expression when
> one is at the end of an expression.
>
> As you can guess, Lisp is a very editor friendly language.
> Because of this fact, an experienced Emacs user realizes
> nearly all of the benefits of structure based editing without
> suffering from its restrictions.
> - John D. Ramsdell
>
> The various Lisp dialects share the same flaw in their syntax.
> They lack a simple property I call human friendliness. A human
> friendly language has the property that syntactic constructs are
> different enough from one another that a simple visual inspection
> is all that is needed to locate the beginning of an expression when
> one is at the end of an expression.
>
> As you can guess, Lisp is a very human unfriendly language.
> Because of this fact, an experienced Lisp user realizes that it
> is virtually impossible to write Lisp programs of any size without
> substantial mechanical assistance.
> - Andrew Koenig
>
if the 'human friendly language' allows free formatting of 'syntactic
constructs' it will be _very_ difficult for 'a simple visual
inspection' to _always_ 'locate the beginning of an expression when one
is at the end of an expression'. IMHO.
(btw, i normally write lisp programs with the expectation of having
'substantial mechanical assistance' in saveing/running them. it is
therefore prefectly ok, i think, to assume the presence of such
assistance.)
bengt
next reply other threads:[~2002-03-04 15:24 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 34+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2002-03-04 15:24 Bengt Kleberg [this message]
2002-03-05 9:41 ` Douglas A. Gwyn
2002-03-05 10:04 ` George Michaelson
2002-03-06 9:51 ` Thomas Bushnell, BSG
2002-03-06 15:56 ` ozan s yigit
2002-03-07 9:56 ` Thomas Bushnell, BSG
2002-03-07 16:46 ` ozan s yigit
2002-03-07 17:55 ` Thomas Bushnell, BSG
2002-03-08 9:59 ` ozan s. yigit
2002-03-06 19:39 ` Andrew Simmons
2002-03-05 10:18 ` Boyd Roberts
-- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2002-03-04 14:41 Russ Cox
2002-03-04 11:43 Bengt Kleberg
2002-03-04 14:02 ` Howard Trickey
2002-03-05 9:41 ` Douglas A. Gwyn
2002-03-05 10:42 ` Boyd Roberts
2002-03-04 0:21 Andrew Simmons
2002-03-05 9:34 ` Boyd Roberts
2002-03-01 17:58 Russ Cox
2002-03-05 9:22 ` Boyd Roberts
2002-03-01 17:29 anothy
2002-03-01 17:13 Bengt Kleberg
2002-03-01 16:15 rob pike
2002-03-04 10:04 ` AMSRL-CI-CN
2002-03-05 9:40 ` ozan s yigit
2002-03-06 9:51 ` Douglas A. Gwyn
2002-03-01 16:04 Russ Cox
2002-02-02 17:05 ` Matt H
2002-03-01 17:12 ` Boyd Roberts
2002-03-04 10:04 ` David Rubin
[not found] <rob@plan9.bell-labs.com>
2002-03-01 6:20 ` rob pike
2002-03-01 6:34 ` George Michaelson
2002-03-01 12:04 ` Boyd Roberts
2002-03-01 2:51 Sam
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