From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Message-Id: <200211071920.gA7JKNi13100@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] ddc In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 07 Nov 2002 13:58:17 EST." From: Dan Cross Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 14:20:23 -0500 Topicbox-Message-UUID: 1861bc14-eacb-11e9-9e20-41e7f4b1d025 > If you want applications, port X to run under rio - voila! most of the 13 > thousand apps included on the Debian distro will be available instantly! > (including the 369 or so tetrisii, 17 dozen minesweeper clones, etc) Well, then what would Choate have to whine about? He'd have the Linux clone he evidentally wants. I've noticed that there are two kinds of people involved in ``Open Source Projects.'' Those that write code, and those that are the self-styled project coordinator and cheerleader types. The latter are the people who make the bombastic claims about the social impact of a particular piece of software (not to say that such things might not happen), who set up 40 billion mailing lists to discuss and dissect the most minute details of their favorite project du jour, who make wild statements about the ``rights of the -user- community,'' and who argue endlessly about the details of license agreements. I suspect that Choate is in this latter camp. Now, don't get me wrong: I think that user groups are fine, some amount of cheerleading is good, and certainly there is overlap between the cheerleading and coding camps. But open source projects tend to get polarized, and the normal pressures that would prevent people who can't otherwise contribute from joining the project don't exist (like, they don't have an interview to get past, since no one is hiring them). Enter people like Choate (...and probably people such as myself, as well; hey, I'll guilty of some of this stuff too! Just like writing this letter). What's always confused me, however, is why these guys make such dramatic claims but then never follow through on them. Case in point: Choate and his Hangar 18 group's ``core code split'' (whatever that means). Okay, where is it? If he's so fed up with 9fans, the existing Plan 9 community, etc, why not take the code that's out there now and run with it? The license isn't perfect, but it's the same as the 3rd Edition license, and it's sufficiently liberal as to allow this. When is this ``split'' going to happen? I'm still waiting. I've been hearing about Hangar 18 for a year or so now through Choate's misspelled, grammatically incorrect spam (in multiple languages, no less), but have yet to see it actually produce anything in terms of code, documentation, or, well, anything other than misspelled, grammatically incorrect spam. Personally, I don't think it will. I think it's just the pet project of a guy who doesn't understand the technology and is frustrated at his own lack of ability, and who projects that frustration out at a larger community he admires. Wow, that's kind of sad, isn't it. Maybe as sad as me posting this letter. - Dan C.