From: Richard C Bilson <rcbilson@plg2.math.uwaterloo.ca>
To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu
Subject: Re: [9fans] book chapters
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 14:17:44 -0400 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <200306301817.OAA27322@plg2.math.uwaterloo.ca> (raw)
> From: Jack Johnson <fragment@nas.com>
>
> Where I have problems with matt's solution breaking down is when you
> have worker_5 creating random sets of files in a traditional hierarchy.
> Any subfolders he/she/it creates lose the rw permissions for the
> bosses group, and even with the sticky bit set for the group you lose
> those permissions the next level deep.
Directories created in a group-sticky directory are group-sticky, at
least on the UNIX-esque systems that I use.
> The specific example I see at work is where you have (young) students
> who want or need direct assistance or supervision from their teachers,
> but the teachers don't want to make it drag-and-drop easy for the
> students to submit another's work as their own. This often is as simple
> as helping a student locate the correct version of a document or
> assessing student work in-place without going through some sort of data
> or paper submission process.
We do exactly that here at Waterloo, using standard groups. Every
student in CS 452 (for instance) has a cs452 directory owned by group
cs452; only the course staff are members of this group. This works
well for things like e-mail help. For the upper-year courses where
cheating is less of an issue, we can get students to submit simply by
throwing their stuff in this dir for us to peruse at our leisure.
A cron job sweeps the file system each night to fix the permissions on
class dirs for the benefit of those who delete or break things.
> Typical scenario:
> -> Disallow students to share/see each other's work
> -> Allow staff to see work but not modify/delete
> -> Allow administrators to read/modify/delete
This is almost what we get, although staff have modify/delete access.
If you don't trust your staff with student work I think you have bigger
problems than just your file system.
We have solutions for your other scenarios too, although I'm sure
they'd be much prettier with ACLs.
> Even in an ACL world things aren't perfect, but it does seem to allow
> one the flexibility of trying to accomodate the real world rather than
> attempting to manipulate human behavior to accomodate a file creation mask.
Although the flexibility generally comes at the price of increased
complexity. Then again, human behavior is inherently complex, so it
might be an appropriate trade-off.
I don't really mean to come out against ACLs -- they're a good thing if
they allow users to create "groups" for themselves without
administrative intervention. But if there existed a simple mechanism
to allow users to define and manage their own groups, I'd probably
never want them.
- Richard
next reply other threads:[~2003-06-30 18:17 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 35+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2003-06-30 18:17 Richard C Bilson [this message]
-- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2003-07-01 17:48 A. Baker
2003-07-02 0:27 ` Dennis Ritchie
2003-06-28 17:44 A. Baker
2003-06-29 4:38 ` Dennis Ritchie
2003-06-27 22:28 Joel Salomon
2003-06-27 22:26 ` Geoff Collyer, geoff
2003-06-27 23:43 ` boyd, rounin
2003-06-27 23:46 ` Geoff Collyer, geoff
2003-06-28 0:53 ` Dennis Ritchie
2003-06-27 9:47 pac
2003-06-27 10:22 ` matt
2003-06-27 22:08 ` Joel Salomon
2003-06-27 22:12 ` Geoff Collyer, geoff
2003-06-27 23:39 ` boyd, rounin
2003-06-28 1:03 ` Scott Schwartz
2003-06-28 2:10 ` Dan Cross
2003-06-28 2:27 ` Dan Cross
2003-06-29 17:55 ` Jack Johnson
2003-06-30 11:17 ` matt
2003-06-30 13:43 ` ron minnich
2003-06-30 14:02 ` matt
2003-06-30 16:56 ` Jack Johnson
2003-06-30 17:16 ` boyd, rounin
2003-06-30 17:19 ` ron minnich
2003-06-30 17:24 ` ron minnich
2003-06-30 17:29 ` boyd, rounin
2003-06-30 18:40 ` rog
2003-06-30 23:16 ` Kenji Arisawa
2003-06-30 23:24 ` boyd, rounin
2003-07-01 1:44 ` David Presotto
2003-07-01 11:27 ` Kenji Arisawa
2003-07-01 11:32 ` David Presotto
2003-07-01 9:51 ` matt
2003-06-27 22:36 ` William Ahern
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