From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Message-Id: <200311170318.hAH3Ifl19985@augusta.math.psu.edu> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: configure misery In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 16 Nov 2003 16:37:43 MST." <2147483647.1069000663@[192.168.42.6]> From: Dan Cross Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2003 22:18:41 -0500 Topicbox-Message-UUID: 8d0ef92c-eacc-11e9-9e20-41e7f4b1d025 Lyndon Nerenberg writes: > wrote: > > The thing is, the BSD source code isn't that much better than the GNU > > stuff, especially now. It seems to be growing without bound. > > This isn't specific to just BSD and GNU. It's a general problem > attributable to the large number of new programmers who haven't been > mentored by people who understand the elegance of uncomplicated code > and tools. This feeds upon itself, and once it reaches critical mass.... I agree with you completely. > Retreating into plan9 is a way to avoid dealing with this problem, but > if nobody teaches these folks the error of their ways, how can it ever > stop? I don't think most of us have the energy to attempt that any > more. (Or in my case, the patience.) More to the point, I'm not sure it's possible. People aren't interested in learning how to program elegantly (try telling Theo Deraadt that he could program more elegantly. For that matter, try telling him he could do *anything* differently), and it's difficult to persuade someone who's convinced they are an expert on something to do that thing differently. What's more, we're seeing a lot of people who confuse installed base and popularity with quality. Often times when I tell people I use Plan 9, the first question they ask me is, ``why?'' When I say that it's better than Linux in terms of the quality of implementation, the response I get is ``then why don't more people use it? If it's so good, why hasn't it displaced Linux?'' Explaining the historical circumstances that's made that the case rarely convinces people that Linux (or BSD) isn't all it's cracked up to be by the hype. - Dan C.