[9fans] Sam's protocol description?

[9fans] Sam's protocol description?

[David Tolpin]

Hi,

apologies if it is the wrong list to ask. Is protocol which sam and samterm
use to communicate described anywhere? If so, is it possible to get the
description?

David Tolpin

Re: [9fans] Sam's protocol description?

[rob pike, esq.]

i don't know of a formal description. the comments in mesg.h (i think)
explain the trickiest part.  the rest is just a thicket of application-specific
ad hoc details.  nothing thrilling, nothing very clean. it's the worst part
of the program.

but since you mention sam....

i'm sitting in new york this week, working on a server in california using
sam -r and it's just great.  sam was written in a 1200 baud age, sam -r
created for the cray (!), and yet it's the most responsive editor around if
there are a few thousand clicks between your terminal and your computer
(pardon me, your desktop and your server).

i never would have expected it to matter for so long.

-rob

Re: [9fans] Sam's protocol description?

[David Tolpin]

> but since you mention sam....

Rob,

sam is a very good thing, many thanks.

I am trying to do a simple thing, namely put a proxy between sam and samterm;
that would enable adding, for example, incremental XML validation without
touching the source code of either.

I am not sure if it is feasible, but if it is, then it is a very good extension
model, much better than scripting inside an editor.

David

Re: [9fans] Sam's protocol description?

[Scott Schwartz]

| i'm sitting in new york this week, working on a server in california using
| sam -r and it's just great.

Yep, that's what I've seen too.  My only wish is for better latency when
scrolling, perhaps by keeping more of the file in the terminal part.
Also it seems like scrolling backwards draws more network traffic;
read ahead caching?

The other cool thing is that sam can edit bigger files than anything
else I've tried.  But then the other day, under unix, open failed on a
>4GB file.  Before I blindly define _FILE_OFFSET_BITS=64, is the rest
of the program up to it?  I remember back on the sam-fans list it was
said that it worked on the Cray but not anywhere else.

Re: [9fans] Sam's protocol description?

[Scott Schwartz]

| anyone done sam -s host to run it across ssh?

Just bind ssh on top of rx.

Re: [9fans] Sam's protocol description?

[Lucio De Re]

On Sat, Jan 10, 2004 at 04:54:26PM +0100, boyd, rounin wrote:
>
> anyone done sam -s host to run it across ssh?

'S far as I know, the -r default is ssh these days.  But I tried
only a couple of times, then gave up because the remote portion
(on NetBSD) was acting stupid.  My fault of course, but I couldn't
be bothered to fix it.

++L

Re: [9fans] Sam's protocol description?

[Rob Pike]

the unix version i've been running - i've long since lost track
of which version is which - just uses ssh for remote sam.  so i say
  sam -r rob@server.com
that should be the default, but i think it's not in some versions.
but you've got the source.

-rob

Re: [9fans] Sam's protocol description?

[Rob Pike]

i would be surprised if sam could handle a file over 1G
(due to runes/bytes, that's 2Gbytes in the temp file) and
startled at 2G.  but i also think it would be easy to fix
all that.  my experience is underlying stuff tends to be
more of an obstacle.

-rob

Re: [9fans] Sam's protocol description?

[David Tolpin]

The only thing I missed in sam was autoindent; and it turned to be
30 min patch to samterm, if anyone is interested, the patch is at
http:///davidashen.net/misc/samterm-indent.diff, 1771 bytes long. Against
the unix version.

David Tolpin

Re: [9fans] Sam's protocol description?

[David Tolpin]

[ Charset ISO-8859-1 unsupported, converting... ]
> > The only thing I missed in sam was autoindent; and it turned to be
> > 30 min patch to samterm,
>
> hitting tab needs no code and it's a big key.
>

I am used to have two spaces indent, and wily has it (autoindent) anyway.

David

Re: [9fans] Sam's protocol description?

[David Tolpin]

> 2 spaces is just silly. just how long are _ your_ lines and indent level?
> must work great with a variable width font ...

2 spaces good. 8 spaces better.

Re: [9fans] Sam's protocol description?

[David Tolpin]

>  > 2 spaces good. 8 spaces better.
>
> s/8 spaces/tab/

You did not understand my intent.

autoindent is not a space smashing stuff. Autoindent is a feature which
places the cursor under the first non-space character of the previous line.
It works with any way of indents' styling; whether they are 8 or 2 or tabs
or spaces.

The 'space smashing stuff' you see in the patch is meant to decrease the traffic
between sam and samterm, while your proposal does the opposite. Hope this helps.

I find it convenient to have editor do it for me; samterm does a handful
of similar things, such as Ctrl-U, Ctrl-W and parentheses matching. I think
it is natural to have autoindent too.

Hope this helps.

David Tolpin
http://davidashen.net/

[9fans] acme

[vdharani]

hi,

like sam, i think rob mentioned once that the file access part of it will
be split so that acme can be used for working remotely with low bandwidth
usage. i am curious to know what is the current status of that feature.

thanks
dharani

Re: [9fans] Sam's protocol description?

[boyd, rounin]

anyone done sam -s host to run it across ssh?

Re: [9fans] acme

[rob pike, esq.]

> like sam, i think rob mentioned once that the file access part of it will
> be split so that acme can be used for working remotely with low bandwidth
> usage. i am curious to know what is the current status of that feature.

the current status is that nothing has been done.  i think the 'will be'
was more like 'wouldn't it be nice if'.

-rob

Re: [9fans] Sam's protocol description?

[rob pike, esq.]

> did you ever do the SHA1/MD5 style protocol for sam (like venti)?

i got some rudimentary stuff working in a test bed, not sam, but
then events intervened.  i doubt i'll get back to it.

-rob

Re: [9fans] Sam's protocol description?

[boyd, rounin]

> Just bind ssh on top of rx.

on p9, but it does give me an idea for lunix.

i was thinking lunix 'cos i have to do some driver
hacking and i only edit with sam ('cept when things
are VSF and then i'll use ed or cat).

Re: [9fans] Sam's protocol description?

[boyd, rounin]

>   sam -r rob@server.com
> that should be the default, but i think it's not in some versions.
> but you've got the source.

i do :)

did you ever do the SHA1/MD5 style protocol for sam (like venti)?

Re: [9fans] Sam's protocol description?

[boyd, rounin]

> The only thing I missed in sam was autoindent; and it turned to be
> 30 min patch to samterm,

hitting tab needs no code and it's a big key.

Re: [9fans] Sam's protocol description?

[boyd, rounin]

> I am used to have two spaces indent, and wily has it (autoindent) anyway.

so?  stick your tab smashing stuff (use x) in a file that B's itself into
sam.

that's what i used to do when forced to use 4 spaces and for dealing
with iso latin 1 (i ifdef'd off utf). this being on lunix.

2 spaces is just silly. just how long are _ your_ lines and indent level?
must work great with a variable width font ...

Re: [9fans] Sam's protocol description?

[boyd, rounin]

 > 2 spaces good. 8 spaces better.

s/8 spaces/tab/

Re: [9fans] Sam's protocol description?

[boyd, rounin]

> autoindent is not a space smashing stuff. Autoindent is a feature which
> places the cursor under the first non-space character of the previous
line.
> It works with any way of indents' styling; whether they are 8 or 2 or tabs
> or spaces.

yes i have 'set ai' in vi and hacked its god awful source.  so you could
say i know what it does.

Re: [9fans] Sam's protocol description?

[ddj]

Rob Pike wrote:
	i never would have expected it to matter for so long.

Thank you for sam!  I wouldn't want to miss sam, and I
didn't discover it until a year ago.  Wily, sam, rc and so
on are great ambassadors for plan9 on GNU/Linux.  I hope
to be able to get the real thing on my laptop some day.

Dennis Decker Jensen