From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 04:50:28 -0400 From: Kris Maglione To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] How can I shift a variable other than ? Message-ID: <20070312085028.GJ12719@kris.home> References: <20070311202334.GI12719@kris.home> <20070311231408.GA21243@shodan.homeunix.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="QnBU6tTI9sljzm9u" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20070311231408.GA21243@shodan.homeunix.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.13 (2006-08-11) Topicbox-Message-UUID: 1f964c82-ead2-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025 --QnBU6tTI9sljzm9u Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Mar 12, 2007 at 12:14:08AM +0100, Martin Neubauer wrote: >Specifically, there are two arguments supporting the change. First, it isn= 't >really a new feature -- it just makes one already present more general (wi= th >a striking resemblance to the for loop.) Second, it doesn't break scripts = in a >harmful way (old scripts still run, new scripts run in an old rc abort -- = if >a correctly written script runs successfully it does what was intended in >either case.) This is entirely beside the point. Breaking old scripts is the least of=20 the issues. The point is that there's little value in altering rc,=20 compared to writing a new shell. Compare mash and sh on Inferno and=20 you'll see what I mean, as I've said. If mash had simply been extended,=20 there would be either a slightly more or sligtly less crufty mash,=20 instead of sh. If rc is to be updated, it should simply be replaced with something=20 better. If Plan 9 is a research OS, as has been suggested in this=20 thread, then why are we to add features to an old shell, rather than=20 rethinking it? The former has nothing to do with research. I'm too tired=20 to argue saliently, but the point is that if rc is lacking, we've been=20 shown better ways already, and they should be instrumented or improved=20 upon properly, not simply hacked onto old cruft. Again, this is exactly how UNIX ended up how it is today, and why Plan 9=20 is not UNIX. --=20 Kris Maglione An easily-understood, workable falsehood is more useful than a complex, incomprehensible truth. --QnBU6tTI9sljzm9u Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.2 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFF9RRUseQZD8Aui4wRAjxSAKCYMNA+kqt3Sa8yz47VQOtNChnJTwCfc0hD plUP4yGk/Pt33gh3Iuq6v9w= =qQok -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --QnBU6tTI9sljzm9u--