* [9fans] Re: You might enjoy this [not found] <200706051447.l55El0ma028778@sparkle.iba.co.za> @ 2007-06-05 17:52 ` lucio 2007-06-05 18:03 ` andrey mirtchovski 2007-06-05 19:46 ` Skip Tavakkolian 0 siblings, 2 replies; 13+ messages in thread From: lucio @ 2007-06-05 17:52 UTC (permalink / raw) To: eugene, 9fans > http://www.joeyoder.com/papers/patterns/BBOM/mud.html Bloody marvellous. I'm copying my thanks to the Plan 9 mailing list. ++L ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Re: You might enjoy this 2007-06-05 17:52 ` [9fans] Re: You might enjoy this lucio @ 2007-06-05 18:03 ` andrey mirtchovski 2007-06-05 18:08 ` lucio 2007-06-05 18:24 ` Sape Mullender 2007-06-05 19:46 ` Skip Tavakkolian 1 sibling, 2 replies; 13+ messages in thread From: andrey mirtchovski @ 2007-06-05 18:03 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs > > http://www.joeyoder.com/papers/patterns/BBOM/mud.html Why does this paper have SO MANY CAPITALIZED WORDS, and what can we do to improve it? ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Re: You might enjoy this 2007-06-05 18:03 ` andrey mirtchovski @ 2007-06-05 18:08 ` lucio 2007-06-05 18:24 ` Sape Mullender 1 sibling, 0 replies; 13+ messages in thread From: lucio @ 2007-06-05 18:08 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans >> > http://www.joeyoder.com/papers/patterns/BBOM/mud.html > > Why does this paper have SO MANY CAPITALIZED WORDS, and what can we do > to improve it? Search and replace. I'm sure that capitalisation is used specifically for the concepts they are discussing. At least that's the impression I get (I'm looking at an htmlfmt version of the paper, too lazy to spawn a browser). ++L ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Re: You might enjoy this 2007-06-05 18:03 ` andrey mirtchovski 2007-06-05 18:08 ` lucio @ 2007-06-05 18:24 ` Sape Mullender 2007-06-05 18:29 ` andrey mirtchovski 1 sibling, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread From: Sape Mullender @ 2007-06-05 18:24 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans >> > http://www.joeyoder.com/papers/patterns/BBOM/mud.html > > Why does this paper have SO MANY CAPITALIZED WORDS, and what can we do > to improve it? tr A-Z a-z ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Re: You might enjoy this 2007-06-05 18:24 ` Sape Mullender @ 2007-06-05 18:29 ` andrey mirtchovski 2007-06-05 18:39 ` john 2007-06-05 18:55 ` Bakul Shah 0 siblings, 2 replies; 13+ messages in thread From: andrey mirtchovski @ 2007-06-05 18:29 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs come on you two, i was throwing a jab at this sentence from the abstract: "Why are so many existing systems architecturally undistinguished, and what can we do to improve them?" ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Re: You might enjoy this 2007-06-05 18:29 ` andrey mirtchovski @ 2007-06-05 18:39 ` john 2007-06-05 18:55 ` Bakul Shah 1 sibling, 0 replies; 13+ messages in thread From: john @ 2007-06-05 18:39 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans > come on you two, i was throwing a jab at this sentence from the abstract: > > "Why are so many existing systems architecturally undistinguished, and > what can we do to improve them?" Good god, man, engineers/programmers reading? You must have different standards.</jest> John "I'll Read It Later" Floren ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Re: You might enjoy this 2007-06-05 18:29 ` andrey mirtchovski 2007-06-05 18:39 ` john @ 2007-06-05 18:55 ` Bakul Shah 1 sibling, 0 replies; 13+ messages in thread From: Bakul Shah @ 2007-06-05 18:55 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs Here is a choice sentence from this paper: A BIG BALL OF MUD is haphazardly structured, sprawling, sloppy, duct-tape and bailing wire, spaghetti code jungle I can't figure out the pattern he used to generate this but I do think this is entirely unfair to a big ball of mud, duct tape, baling wire, spaghetti and jungle. Doesn't everyone know most modern s/w is like a Rube Goldberg contraption? ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Re: You might enjoy this 2007-06-05 17:52 ` [9fans] Re: You might enjoy this lucio 2007-06-05 18:03 ` andrey mirtchovski @ 2007-06-05 19:46 ` Skip Tavakkolian 2007-06-05 20:02 ` W B Hacker ` (3 more replies) 1 sibling, 4 replies; 13+ messages in thread From: Skip Tavakkolian @ 2007-06-05 19:46 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans >> http://www.joeyoder.com/papers/patterns/BBOM/mud.html i offer my counter diatribe/extrapolation for peer review: bbom should just be called "organic software" or "evolutionary software". unlike organic vegetables, it's not good for you. like vegetables, the force behind its evolution is not some grand design with stated requirements like "its green leaves shall be nourishing to humans" but competition for local resources to survive. for shantytowns the inputs to the resource equation are: available material within 500' of construction site, 1-2 weeks (before the rainy season and after a hastily arranged marriage), work output of 2 people and space available within 25' of where the person is standing. for software industry, it is about survival of the software company. it must beat the competitors to the market - software survives to evolve if the company survives. the parameters to the resource equation are similar to shantytowns: 2-3 months (for a 6-9 month release cycle), output of 1-2 developers within the part of the code that they understand. elegance and efficiency of software become major factors only if a software malfunction can adversely affect the survival of the company that produces it; which usually means it must cause loss of life or property. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Re: You might enjoy this 2007-06-05 19:46 ` Skip Tavakkolian @ 2007-06-05 20:02 ` W B Hacker 2007-06-05 21:34 ` Gregory Pavelcak ` (2 subsequent siblings) 3 siblings, 0 replies; 13+ messages in thread From: W B Hacker @ 2007-06-05 20:02 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs Skip Tavakkolian wrote: >>> http://www.joeyoder.com/papers/patterns/BBOM/mud.html > > i offer my counter diatribe/extrapolation for peer review: > *snip* > > elegance and efficiency of software become major factors only if a > software malfunction can adversely affect the survival of the > company that produces it; which usually means it must cause loss > of life or property. > > Seems the automobile, tire, and tobacco companies have disproved concerns about 'loss of life', the Credit Card companies and tax man disproved the bit about 'loss of property', and Micros**t has confirmed both (given incremental 'loss of life', i..e hours wasted..). All we seem to have to worry about really is trans fats in the code and politically incorrect statements... No shortage of either... Beware of neighbors carrying rope... ;-) Bill ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Re: You might enjoy this 2007-06-05 19:46 ` Skip Tavakkolian 2007-06-05 20:02 ` W B Hacker @ 2007-06-05 21:34 ` Gregory Pavelcak 2007-06-05 21:50 ` erik quanstrom 2007-06-05 22:46 ` W B Hacker 3 siblings, 0 replies; 13+ messages in thread From: Gregory Pavelcak @ 2007-06-05 21:34 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans [no matches in 4fl L.mbox acme.dump avail bin/ cpurc cvs/ devel/ doc/ guide lib/ sys/ text/ tmp/] [no matches in 4fl L.mbox acme.dump avail bin/ cpurc cvs/ devel/ doc/ guide lib/ sys/ text/ tmp/] Actually, organic vegetables may not be good for you either. It just sounds better than "grown in bacteria laden animal excrement". Greg ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Re: You might enjoy this 2007-06-05 19:46 ` Skip Tavakkolian 2007-06-05 20:02 ` W B Hacker 2007-06-05 21:34 ` Gregory Pavelcak @ 2007-06-05 21:50 ` erik quanstrom 2007-06-05 22:46 ` W B Hacker 3 siblings, 0 replies; 13+ messages in thread From: erik quanstrom @ 2007-06-05 21:50 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans i think that's too cynical. elegance and efficency (and a plan) can benefit a company if they allow the company to build better performing products for less money. i hope that's what we do. - erik ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Re: You might enjoy this 2007-06-05 19:46 ` Skip Tavakkolian ` (2 preceding siblings ...) 2007-06-05 21:50 ` erik quanstrom @ 2007-06-05 22:46 ` W B Hacker 2007-06-05 23:00 ` W B Hacker 3 siblings, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread From: W B Hacker @ 2007-06-05 22:46 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs Skip Tavakkolian wrote: >>> http://www.joeyoder.com/papers/patterns/BBOM/mud.html > > i offer my counter diatribe/extrapolation for peer review: > *snip* > > elegance and efficiency of software become major factors only if a > software malfunction can adversely affect the survival of the > company that produces it; which usually means it must cause loss > of life or property. > > Seems the automobile, tire, and tobacco companies have disproved concerns about 'loss of life', the Credit Card companies and tax man disproved the bit about 'loss of property', and Micros**t has confirmed both (given incremental 'loss of life', i..e hours wasted..). All we seem to have to worry about really is trans fats in the code and politically incorrect statements... No shortage of either... Beware of neighbors carrying rope... ;-) Bill ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Re: You might enjoy this 2007-06-05 22:46 ` W B Hacker @ 2007-06-05 23:00 ` W B Hacker 0 siblings, 0 replies; 13+ messages in thread From: W B Hacker @ 2007-06-05 23:00 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs W B Hacker wrote: > > No shortage of either... Apologies. No shortage of (trans) fat-fingers, either... Bill ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2007-06-05 23:00 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 13+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed) -- links below jump to the message on this page -- [not found] <200706051447.l55El0ma028778@sparkle.iba.co.za> 2007-06-05 17:52 ` [9fans] Re: You might enjoy this lucio 2007-06-05 18:03 ` andrey mirtchovski 2007-06-05 18:08 ` lucio 2007-06-05 18:24 ` Sape Mullender 2007-06-05 18:29 ` andrey mirtchovski 2007-06-05 18:39 ` john 2007-06-05 18:55 ` Bakul Shah 2007-06-05 19:46 ` Skip Tavakkolian 2007-06-05 20:02 ` W B Hacker 2007-06-05 21:34 ` Gregory Pavelcak 2007-06-05 21:50 ` erik quanstrom 2007-06-05 22:46 ` W B Hacker 2007-06-05 23:00 ` W B Hacker
This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox; as well as URLs for NNTP newsgroup(s).