From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 14:35:18 -0400 From: Kris Maglione To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Colors and other fun Message-ID: <20070627183518.GD28917@kris.home> References: <7359f0490706270807ia34da8bl408c6042474637b4@mail.gmail.com> <20070627182621.C14B05B3B@mail.bitblocks.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="yudcn1FV7Hsu/q59" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20070627182621.C14B05B3B@mail.bitblocks.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.15 (2007-04-06) Topicbox-Message-UUID: 887427f6-ead2-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025 --yudcn1FV7Hsu/q59 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Jun 27, 2007 at 11:26:21AM -0700, Bakul Shah wrote: >Since you bring up design issues I have to ask! Plan9 >graphics are limited to 2D and I have long wondered if >stopping there was by design (and lack of need) or because >you couldn't come up with a satisfactory 3D design. In any >case, how you would you go about designing a 3D graphics >system? Discussing ideas you have considered and thrown away >or ideas you have mused about but not taken further would be >quite interesting (at least to me). Thanks! By 3D design, do you mean 3D widgets? You might note that most=20 Plan 9 apps don't use widget toolkits (although libframe is sort=20 of like one), but libpanel (by Tom Duff, used by mothra) uses 3D=20 widgets, as does Inferno's Tk (although both are ugly by most=20 standards; I'm no fan). Although I'd be interested in hearing the rationale for not=20 using 3d widgets in the Plan 9 UI, my rationale is that it's=20 just not necessary. I don't even find 3D widgets particularly=20 pleasant. It's interesting to note that most Web2-ish UIs don't=20 use much in the way of 3D effects. All that being said, 3D UIs=20 are very hard to get right. Most free 3D toolkits appear rather=20 crude, with ones like Tk and Xforms being positively ugly. The=20 same can be said of most commercial ones. UIs like Cocoa, Qt, and=20 GTK have had a lot of effort put into them by artists, not=20 programmers, in recent years. If compared to them, most people=20 who would like 3D UIs would balk at anything less. Those who can=20 do without them tend not to relish the overhead, or to=20 particularly enjoy the effect. --=20 Kris Maglione The speed of an oncoming vehicle is directly proportional to the length of the passing zone. --yudcn1FV7Hsu/q59 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.3 (FreeBSD) iD4DBQFGgq3mseQZD8Aui4wRAqCLAJ49CbDErtDE6Vwy8l7kygbvNXTFJACXZedi h392CWxJrFPrT0JqCwmNtQ== =tAjg -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --yudcn1FV7Hsu/q59--