[9fans] OLE vs. 9P

[9fans] OLE vs. 9P

[Enrico Weigelt]

Hi folks,


did anyone already do some works on OLE-alike things via 9P ?

Would be great to move out things like browser plugins to 
external servers.

cu
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 Enrico Weigelt    ==   metux IT service - http://www.metux.de/
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Re: [9fans] OLE vs. 9P

[Roman Shaposhnik]

On Mon, 2008-01-07 at 19:44 +0100, Enrico Weigelt wrote:
> Hi folks,
> 
> 
> did anyone already do some works on OLE-alike things via 9P ?
> 
> Would be great to move out things like browser plugins to 
> external servers.

  OLE is heavily abused term. And example you gave with browser
plugins helps, but I'll be easier to answer you question if 
you can be more specific.

  So far it strikes me as what you're looking for is a kind
of technology that Nemo has been working on. Look up Omero & 
Ubiquitous user interfaces.

Thanks,
Roman.

Re: [9fans] OLE vs. 9P

[Enrico Weigelt]

* Roman Shaposhnik <rvs@sun.com> wrote:

Hi,

>   OLE is heavily abused term. And example you gave with browser
> plugins helps, but I'll be easier to answer you question if 
> you can be more specific.

Okay, then let's stay at browser plugins.

I really want to get them out to their own processes and 
speaking 9P (nspluginwrapper is already going in that direction,
but not yet far enough)

We could start with an remote display/framebuffer (a little bit
like an tiny X via 9P ;-o)




cu
-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------------
 Enrico Weigelt    ==   metux IT service - http://www.metux.de/
---------------------------------------------------------------------
 Please visit the OpenSource QM Taskforce:
 	http://wiki.metux.de/public/OpenSource_QM_Taskforce
 Patches / Fixes for a lot dozens of packages in dozens of versions:
	http://patches.metux.de/
---------------------------------------------------------------------

Re: [9fans] OLE vs. 9P

[Roman Shaposhnik]

On Tue, 2008-01-08 at 19:31 +0100, Enrico Weigelt wrote:
> * Roman Shaposhnik <rvs@sun.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> >   OLE is heavily abused term. And example you gave with browser
> > plugins helps, but I'll be easier to answer you question if 
> > you can be more specific.
> 
> Okay, then let's stay at browser plugins.
> 
> I really want to get them out to their own processes and 
> speaking 9P (nspluginwrapper is already going in that direction,
> but not yet far enough)
> 
> We could start with an remote display/framebuffer (a little bit
> like an tiny X via 9P ;-o)

  Well, in that case it seems that it would be indeed, all you need.
I'm very far from being an expert on how modern browsers are designed,
but it seems the only shared thing between a browser and a plugin
should be set of rectangular framebuffers. I would expect the rest
of resources to be either available as-is (audio, etc.) or be request
from the browser in a general fashion (bookmarks, history, etc.).
The trickiest part seems to be exploring locality for the mapped 
rendering (imagine a multimedia plugin displaying an HD movie).

Thanks,
Roman.

Re: [9fans] OLE vs. 9P

[Enrico Weigelt]

* Roman Shaposhnik <rvs@sun.com> wrote:

>   Well, in that case it seems that it would be indeed, all you need.
> I'm very far from being an expert on how modern browsers are designed,
> but it seems the only shared thing between a browser and a plugin
> should be set of rectangular framebuffers. I would expect the rest
> of resources to be either available as-is (audio, etc.) or be request
> from the browser in a general fashion (bookmarks, history, etc.).

hmm, just had a quick look through the swfdec plugin code ... 
Seems to be some bit more. There are also things like input 
stream, URL access, etc.

Okay, let's start with an Canvas. I've collected some ideas:

* http://oss-qm.metux.de/index.php/9forge/Canvas

> The trickiest part seems to be exploring locality for the mapped 
> rendering (imagine a multimedia plugin displaying an HD movie).

Those things require special interfaces, which tunnel streams 
through 9P. Maybe something like mjpeg with timestamps.


cu
-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------------
 Enrico Weigelt    ==   metux IT service - http://www.metux.de/
---------------------------------------------------------------------
 Please visit the OpenSource QM Taskforce:
 	http://wiki.metux.de/public/OpenSource_QM_Taskforce
 Patches / Fixes for a lot dozens of packages in dozens of versions:
	http://patches.metux.de/
---------------------------------------------------------------------

Re: [9fans] OLE vs. 9P

[Sergey Zhilkin]

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>Okay, let's start with an Canvas. I've collected some ideas:

drawterm as browser plugin ?? :)

2008/1/10, Enrico Weigelt <weigelt@metux.de>:
>
> * Roman Shaposhnik <rvs@sun.com> wrote:
>
> >   Well, in that case it seems that it would be indeed, all you need.
> > I'm very far from being an expert on how modern browsers are designed,
> > but it seems the only shared thing between a browser and a plugin
> > should be set of rectangular framebuffers. I would expect the rest
> > of resources to be either available as-is (audio, etc.) or be request
> > from the browser in a general fashion (bookmarks, history, etc.).
>
> hmm, just had a quick look through the swfdec plugin code ...
> Seems to be some bit more. There are also things like input
> stream, URL access, etc.
>
> Okay, let's start with an Canvas. I've collected some ideas:
>
> * http://oss-qm.metux.de/index.php/9forge/Canvas
>
> > The trickiest part seems to be exploring locality for the mapped
> > rendering (imagine a multimedia plugin displaying an HD movie).
>
> Those things require special interfaces, which tunnel streams
> through 9P. Maybe something like mjpeg with timestamps.
>
>
> cu
> --
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Enrico Weigelt    ==   metux IT service - http://www.metux.de/
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Please visit the OpenSource QM Taskforce:
>         http://wiki.metux.de/public/OpenSource_QM_Taskforce
> Patches / Fixes for a lot dozens of packages in dozens of versions:
>         http://patches.metux.de/
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>



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Re: [9fans] OLE vs. 9P

[Enrico Weigelt]

* Sergey Zhilkin <szhilkin@gmail.com> wrote:
> >Okay, let's start with an Canvas. I've collected some ideas:
> 
> drawterm as browser plugin ?? :)

hmm, maybe it might be an part of it.
Browser plugins need some bit more functionaility.
I'm thinking of an browser-plugin-fs, which provides several 
standard interfaces for several things (canvas, javascript
access, plain data storage, audio-io, etc - each of them
mapped to its own subdir within browser-plugin-fs.

cu
-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------------
 Enrico Weigelt    ==   metux IT service - http://www.metux.de/
---------------------------------------------------------------------
 Please visit the OpenSource QM Taskforce:
 	http://wiki.metux.de/public/OpenSource_QM_Taskforce
 Patches / Fixes for a lot dozens of packages in dozens of versions:
	http://patches.metux.de/
---------------------------------------------------------------------

Re: [9fans] OLE vs. 9P

[Roman Shaposhnik]

On Thu, 2008-01-10 at 03:16 +0100, Enrico Weigelt wrote:
> > The trickiest part seems to be exploring locality for the mapped 
> > rendering (imagine a multimedia plugin displaying an HD movie).
> 
> Those things require special interfaces, which tunnel streams 
> through 9P. Maybe something like mjpeg with timestamps.

  I don't think tunneling will get you very far. In this particular
case you really need to exploit locality and get to do DMA to the
device or the like. The tricky portion is arbitrating such resources.

Thanks,
Roman.