[9fans] usbohci in pccpuf

[9fans] usbohci in pccpuf

[lejatorn]

Hello 9fans,

Jsyk, I had to comment out usbohci in /sys/src/9/pc/pccpuf for the usb
keyboard to work with a freshly built 9pccpuf. (there's only usb ports
on the eserver 325). System pulled last friday (06/06/08).

Cheers,
Mathieu.

Re: [9fans] usbohci in pccpuf

[erik quanstrom]

> Hello 9fans,
>
> Jsyk, I had to comment out usbohci in /sys/src/9/pc/pccpuf for the usb
> keyboard to work with a freshly built 9pccpuf. (there's only usb ports
> on the eserver 325). System pulled last friday (06/06/08).
>
> Cheers,
> Mathieu.

likely if you turn off "usb legacy" in bios, you will be able to use
the standard kernel.

- erik

Re: [9fans] usbohci in pccpuf

[lejatorn]

On Mon, Jun 09, 2008 at 01:56:07PM -0400, erik quanstrom wrote:
> > Hello 9fans,
> >
> > Jsyk, I had to comment out usbohci in /sys/src/9/pc/pccpuf for the usb
> > keyboard to work with a freshly built 9pccpuf. (there's only usb ports
> > on the eserver 325). System pulled last friday (06/06/08).
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Mathieu.
>
> likely if you turn off "usb legacy" in bios, you will be able to use
> the standard kernel.

I've just tried, it doesn't seem to change anything on that matter.
Well, it's not blocking for me in that case anyway, I can live without
usbohci.

Mathieu.

Re: [9fans] usbohci in pccpuf

[erik quanstrom]

>> > Jsyk, I had to comment out usbohci in /sys/src/9/pc/pccpuf for the usb
>> > keyboard to work with a freshly built 9pccpuf. (there's only usb ports
>> > on the eserver 325). System pulled last friday (06/06/08).
>> >
>> > Cheers,
>> > Mathieu.
>>
>> likely if you turn off "usb legacy" in bios, you will be able to use
>> the standard kernel.
>
> I've just tried, it doesn't seem to change anything on that matter.
> Well, it's not blocking for me in that case anyway, I can live without
> usbohci.

you also need to start usb/usbd and usb/kb, at least.

- erik

Re: [9fans] usbohci in pccpuf

[lejatorn]

On Tue, Jun 10, 2008 at 10:17:20AM -0400, erik quanstrom wrote:
> >> > Jsyk, I had to comment out usbohci in /sys/src/9/pc/pccpuf for the usb
> >> > keyboard to work with a freshly built 9pccpuf. (there's only usb ports
> >> > on the eserver 325). System pulled last friday (06/06/08).
> >> >
> >> > Cheers,
> >> > Mathieu.
> >>
> >> likely if you turn off "usb legacy" in bios, you will be able to use
> >> the standard kernel.
> >
> > I've just tried, it doesn't seem to change anything on that matter.
> > Well, it's not blocking for me in that case anyway, I can live without
> > usbohci.
>
> you also need to start usb/usbd and usb/kb, at least.

yes, but if you need the keyboard to enter stuff during boot time, like
the authid, or the path to the filesystem, then it's not possible
because I think those choices happen before the point where those
commands can be issued, right? Unless there is some place other than
cpurc where I could set those commands?

Re: [9fans] usbohci in pccpuf

[Uriel]

There is no support for usb keyboards.

Well, nemo implemented it some billions of years ago, and the code is
bittrotting somewhere in sources (which incidentally is down, as
usual). So, lets just pretend usb keyboards don't exist (or that all
bioses support the 'emulate ancient keyboards' switch and will do so
for the rest of eternity).

uriel

On Tue, Jun 10, 2008 at 5:15 PM,  <lejatorn@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Jun 10, 2008 at 10:17:20AM -0400, erik quanstrom wrote:
>> >> > Jsyk, I had to comment out usbohci in /sys/src/9/pc/pccpuf for the usb
>> >> > keyboard to work with a freshly built 9pccpuf. (there's only usb ports
>> >> > on the eserver 325). System pulled last friday (06/06/08).
>> >> >
>> >> > Cheers,
>> >> > Mathieu.
>> >>
>> >> likely if you turn off "usb legacy" in bios, you will be able to use
>> >> the standard kernel.
>> >
>> > I've just tried, it doesn't seem to change anything on that matter.
>> > Well, it's not blocking for me in that case anyway, I can live without
>> > usbohci.
>>
>> you also need to start usb/usbd and usb/kb, at least.
>
> yes, but if you need the keyboard to enter stuff during boot time, like
> the authid, or the path to the filesystem, then it's not possible
> because I think those choices happen before the point where those
> commands can be issued, right? Unless there is some place other than
> cpurc where I could set those commands?
>
>
>

Re: [9fans] usbohci in pccpuf

[erik quanstrom]

> There is no support for usb keyboards.

wrong.

> Well, nemo implemented it some billions of years ago, and the code is
> bittrotting somewhere in sources (which incidentally is down, as
> usual).

works for me.  are you sure this isn't a local connectivity problem?

> So, lets just pretend usb keyboards don't exist (or that all
> bioses support the 'emulate ancient keyboards' switch and will do so
> for the rest of eternity).

the problem with this is that usb legacy emulation uses system mgmt
mode.  you might not care that bios takes over your system for 100ms
at a time while translating usb into keyboard, but this happens to be a problem
for us.

- erik

Re: [9fans] usbohci in pccpuf

[sqweek]

On Tue, Jun 10, 2008 at 11:28 PM, erik quanstrom <quanstro@quanstro.net> wrote:
>> Well, nemo implemented it some billions of years ago, and the code is
>> bittrotting somewhere in sources (which incidentally is down, as
>> usual).
>
> works for me.  are you sure this isn't a local connectivity problem?

 Just some confusion on irc, in the end.
-sqweek

Re: [9fans] usbohci in pccpuf

[sqweek]

On Tue, Jun 10, 2008 at 11:25 PM, Uriel <uriel99@gmail.com> wrote:
[top-posting fixed]
> On Tue, Jun 10, 2008 at 5:15 PM,  <lejatorn@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Tue, Jun 10, 2008 at 10:17:20AM -0400, erik quanstrom wrote:
>>> you also need to start usb/usbd and usb/kb, at least.
>>
>> yes, but if you need the keyboard to enter stuff during boot time, like
>> the authid, or the path to the filesystem, then it's not possible
>> because I think those choices happen before the point where those
>> commands can be issued, right?

 Pretty sure you're right. This situation looks to me like one that
could be avoided by replacing 9load with a proper kernel - otherwise
we'd have to teach 9load about usb, no?

> There is no support for usb keyboards.
>
> Well, nemo implemented it some billions of years ago, and the code is
> bittrotting somewhere in sources (which incidentally is down, as
> usual).

 I understand your frustration uriel, but if you read carefully you'll
notice erik's message here makes a reference to usb/kb. Which suggests
to me that usb keyboards have some support nowadays. Some things
change for the better :)

-sqweek

Re: [9fans] usbohci in pccpuf

[erik quanstrom]

>  Pretty sure you're right. This situation looks to me like one that
> could be avoided by replacing 9load with a proper kernel - otherwise
> we'd have to teach 9load about usb, no?

evidently on this hardware at least, usb legacy is disabled
when the os probes the usb hardware.  so no, 9load ignoring
usb would not be a problem in this case.

(the authid &c questions happen after the kernel is loaded.)

- erik

Re: [9fans] usbohci in pccpuf

[erik quanstrom]

> yes, but if you need the keyboard to enter stuff during boot time, like
> the authid, or the path to the filesystem, then it's not possible
> because I think those choices happen before the point where those
> commands can be issued, right? Unless there is some place other than
> cpurc where I could set those commands?

yes, if that is the case, you're in a pickle.

however, if you have a place for local nvram and you make sure
your plan9.ini file (or pxe version thereof) specifies the path to
the fs, you can still boot to a native usb kbd.

if you can't resolve one of those issues, you will likely need to add
some code to the init process and link usb/usbd and usb/kb into
the kernel.

- or - if you have working ethernet, the cec patches that i submitted
a year or so ago will allow you to enter very early boot information
using cec(8).  i also have a prototype 9load that will also interact
via cec.

an older version of cec is part of the distribution.  my current
version is in /n/sources/contrib/quanstro/src/cec.  i'd be happy to
put the kernel patches somewhere if folks would find it useful.

- erik

Re: [9fans] usbohci in pccpuf

[lejatorn]

On Tue, Jun 10, 2008 at 11:27:39AM -0400, erik quanstrom wrote:
> > yes, but if you need the keyboard to enter stuff during boot time, like
> > the authid, or the path to the filesystem, then it's not possible
> > because I think those choices happen before the point where those
> > commands can be issued, right? Unless there is some place other than
> > cpurc where I could set those commands?
> 
> yes, if that is the case, you're in a pickle.
> 
> however, if you have a place for local nvram and you make sure
> your plan9.ini file (or pxe version thereof) specifies the path to
> the fs, you can still boot to a native usb kbd.
> 
> if you can't resolve one of those issues, you will likely need to add
> some code to the init process and link usb/usbd and usb/kb into
> the kernel.
> 
> - or - if you have working ethernet, the cec patches that i submitted
> a year or so ago will allow you to enter very early boot information
> using cec(8).  i also have a prototype 9load that will also interact
> via cec.
> 
> an older version of cec is part of the distribution.  my current
> version is in /n/sources/contrib/quanstro/src/cec.  i'd be happy to
> put the kernel patches somewhere if folks would find it useful.

Well in my case I am not stuck anymore since I could deal with the nvram
stuff with a usbohci-free kernel. And yeah, I can go back to the regular
kernel if I set the fs path in plan9.ini without the query for it.

I had intially mailed so that if the behaviour qualified as a bug, it
would be reported, and if someone ever stumbled upon the same thing he
could find the quick fix (remove usbohci) if he/she cared enough to 
digg in 9fans archives.

Now your solutions are archived as well if needed. ☺

Cheers,
Mathieu.

Re: [9fans] usbohci in pccpuf

[Fco. J. Ballesteros]

usb/kb is in sources.
In fact, I'm using that version and not mine. (IIRC).

>  From: uriel99@gmail.com
>  To: 9fans@9fans.net
>  Reply-To: 9fans@9fans.net
>  Date: Tue Jun 10 17:26:38 CET 2008
>  Subject: Re: [9fans] usbohci in pccpuf
>
>  There is no support for usb keyboards.
>
>  Well, nemo implemented it some billions of years ago, and the code is
>  bittrotting somewhere in sources (which incidentally is down, as
>  usual). So, lets just pretend usb keyboards don't exist (or that all
>  bioses support the 'emulate ancient keyboards' switch and will do so
>  for the rest of eternity).
>
>  uriel
>
>  On Tue, Jun 10, 2008 at 5:15 PM, <lejatorn@gmail.com> wrote:
>  > On Tue, Jun 10, 2008 at 10:17:20AM -0400, erik quanstrom wrote:
>  >> >> > Jsyk, I had to comment out usbohci in /sys/src/9/pc/pccpuf for the usb
>  >> >> > keyboard to work with a freshly built 9pccpuf. (there's only usb ports
>  >> >> > on the eserver 325). System pulled last friday (06/06/08).
>  >> >> >
>  >> >> > Cheers,
>  >> >> > Mathieu.
>  >> >>
>  >> >> likely if you turn off "usb legacy" in bios, you will be able to use
>  >> >> the standard kernel.
>  >> >
>  >> > I've just tried, it doesn't seem to change anything on that matter.
>  >> > Well, it's not blocking for me in that case anyway, I can live without
>  >> > usbohci.
>  >>
>  >> you also need to start usb/usbd and usb/kb, at least.
>  >
>  > yes, but if you need the keyboard to enter stuff during boot time, like
>  > the authid, or the path to the filesystem, then it's not possible
>  > because I think those choices happen before the point where those
>  > commands can be issued, right? Unless there is some place other than
>  > cpurc where I could set those commands?
>  >
>  >
>  >

Re: [9fans] usbohci in pccpuf

[Charles Forsyth]

> or that all
>>  bioses support the 'emulate ancient keyboards' switch and will do so
>>  for the rest of eternity).

probably. it's needed for DOS

Re: [9fans] usbohci in pccpuf

[David Leimbach]

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On Tue, Jun 10, 2008 at 8:48 AM, Charles Forsyth <forsyth@terzarima.net>
wrote:

> > or that all
> >>  bioses support the 'emulate ancient keyboards' switch and will do so
> >>  for the rest of eternity).
>
> probably. it's needed for DOS
>
>
> I used to need it for FreeBSD too... cuz their USB support pretty well
sucked too for a long time.  (USB printers could crash the whole OS back in
the day... not sure how 7 is.)

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