From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: tlaronde@polynum.com Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2010 10:10:30 +0100 To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net> Message-ID: <20101114091030.GA793@polynum.com> References: <703b2539-027e-4f9f-a739-00b59f6d3d82@v28g2000vbb.googlegroups.com> <20101113192425.GC22589@nibiru.local> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="VbJkn9YxBvnuCH5J" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i Subject: Re: [9fans] Plan9 development Topicbox-Message-UUID: 7d2282b8-ead6-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025 --VbJkn9YxBvnuCH5J Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello, On Sun, Nov 14, 2010 at 09:17:46AM +0700, Gary V. Vaughan wrote: > [[resent from my subscribed email address after the mailing list rejected= the original]] >=20 > [...]=20 > AFAICT, without rewriting the entire GNU build system from the ground > up (and there is far too much momentum behind it to ever gain enough > traction to switch the GNU eco-system to an entirely new and different > build system anyway) the following precepts are immutable: It took me less time to write R.I.S.K. (the building framework used for KerGIS and KerTeX)---and R.I.S.K. does shared libraries if supported and desired---from scratch than to try to understand auto* and libtool. Furthermore, the auto* and libtool were typically made for trying to do something "working" to some extend with a chaotic source. They typically manage to compile "things" written by programmers who have been encouraged to look at the finger ignoring the moon: to concentrate on the "GNU" tools and "GNU" libraries etc, and not on C89 (or C99), POSIX etc. Furthermore, the tools were not written with cross-compilation in mind: compiling and testing a program to run it for obtaining an information is making the assumption that MATRIX =3D=3D TARGET. Cross-compilation allows you to build with some assumptions and some warranties (on the MATRIX) for a TARGET that has perhaps not, by itself, all the utilities you are assuming. The main problem is indeed "philosophy": encourage the bazaar even in the code. I personnally don't buy that. And the acronym "GNU is Not Unix" is a sophism since GNU will be strictly nothing without Unices, especially open source ones. But since GNU is not Unix, there are imbeciles that insist that a real GNU system must not conform to POSIX, because it is a Unix thing, neither to a C standard ([scornful]: if you really want this my dear, try "-pedantic"...). The GNU way, with the auto* and libtool is demonstrated with GPL GRASS and GPL TeXLive. And I have made the demonstration of the power of organized against bazaar by reworking the two monstruous things _alone_ so that they are maintainable, that is able to be "hold in on hand". Cheers, --=20 Thierry Laronde http://www.kergis.com/ Key fingerprint =3D 0FF7 E906 FBAF FE95 FD89 250D 52B1 AE95 6006 F40C --VbJkn9YxBvnuCH5J Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (NetBSD) iD8DBQFM36eGUrGulWAG9AwRAo2pAJ4h1octgILBbIAMIdg9+zG7ymRAMwCdFnZA yqT4HygFWoXwVqAyuoPOLEI= =jtdc -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --VbJkn9YxBvnuCH5J--