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From: Lucio De Re <lucio@proxima.alt.za>
To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net>
Subject: Re: [9fans] Plan9 development
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2010 18:24:14 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20101115162414.GA1847@fangle.proxima.alt.za> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTinwE=8kB8Hu34NFUZYBVwtt29_MqTOAyFyEehNa@mail.gmail.com>

Dan makes a good point and I agree entirely with his sentiments.  But I do
have a qualm: the Plan 9 designers managed to simplify cross-compilation
to a single underlying (OS) platform, but failed (in a suprisingly ugly
way) to cater for different target object formats, even though there were
efforts to do so.  In my opinion - and this is all I hold against Plan
9 - by shoehorning various target object formats in the linker/loader
as options, they spoiled the consistency of the system.

I have no doubt at all that this was an afterthought or at any rate an
attempt to make the most of a situation they could not have control over,
but I think that the problem ought to have been given more attention
and a better solution sought.  Of course, I can plead ignorance and
stupidity and admit that I have no idea how I would address the same
problem, but I'd like to raise it, because I think in a forum like this
it may well stimulate the type of productive discussion that leads to
a better mouse trap.

To put the problem into perspective, think of Go: the developers have
added more shoehorning to target ELF and possibly other object models;
I'm sure that, had they had space to do it, they would have found it
more fruitful to distil that portion of the development system into a
separate or at least better structure.

Having investigated this and painted myself into a corner, I'm curious
to hear what others think of the issue.  Specially those, like Russ,
who were involved in the initial decisions regarding Go.  Looking at the
outcome, I can't help but think that the Plan 9 toolchain is infinitely
superior to its current competitors.  And I'd also like to point out
that any shortcomings it may have regarding implementation of C99 can
almost certainly be addressed within the ability of a single, no doubt
gifted, but not infinitely so, individual.

++L



  reply	other threads:[~2010-11-15 16:24 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 91+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2010-11-04  9:36 Admiral Fukov
2010-11-04  9:47 ` Lucio De Re
2010-11-04 10:20   ` Steve Simon
2010-11-04 11:30 ` Brantley Coile
2010-11-04 15:39 ` David Leimbach
2010-11-04 15:55   ` Stanley Lieber
2010-11-04 16:01     ` John Floren
2010-11-04 16:39       ` ron minnich
2010-11-04 16:57         ` Stanley Lieber
2010-11-04 17:01         ` Don Bailey
2010-11-04 17:19         ` Jeff Sickel
2010-11-04 22:20           ` Charles Forsyth
2010-11-05  1:41             ` Venkatesh Srinivas
2010-11-05  3:50               ` Bruce Ellis
2010-11-05  7:11                 ` Lucio De Re
2010-11-05  7:55                   ` Bruce Ellis
2010-11-05 13:31                     ` Eric Van Hensbergen
2010-11-05 15:16                       ` C H Forsyth
2010-11-05 17:07                       ` dexen deVries
2010-11-05 17:18                         ` Nick LaForge
2010-11-05 17:32                           ` dexen deVries
2010-11-05 17:39                             ` andrey mirtchovski
2010-11-05 17:55                               ` dexen deVries
2010-11-05 17:45                             ` David Leimbach
2010-11-05 18:14                               ` erik quanstrom
2010-11-05 18:37                                 ` roger peppe
2010-11-05 19:06                                   ` erik quanstrom
2010-11-08 11:04                                     ` roger peppe
2010-11-08 21:24                                       ` Bruce Ellis
2010-11-08 22:22                                         ` Charles Forsyth
2010-11-08 22:25                                           ` Bruce Ellis
2010-11-08 22:33                                           ` Charles Forsyth
2010-11-09  2:10                                             ` Jeff Sickel
2010-11-09  3:18                                               ` EBo
2010-11-09  8:10                                                 ` Bruce Ellis
2010-11-13 19:15                                             ` Enrico Weigelt
2010-11-05 20:37                         ` Eric Van Hensbergen
2010-11-06  0:55                           ` Charles Forsyth
2010-11-06  2:20                         ` Bruce Ellis
2010-11-06 20:24                           ` dexen deVries
2010-11-05 18:43             ` Bakul Shah
2010-11-13 19:24         ` Enrico Weigelt
2010-11-14  2:17           ` Gary V. Vaughan
2010-11-14  5:47             ` Anthony Sorace
2010-11-14  6:24               ` erik quanstrom
2010-11-14  8:13                 ` Gary V. Vaughan
2010-11-14 15:56                   ` Jacob Todd
2010-11-14 16:24                     ` ron minnich
2010-11-14  6:26               ` Russ Cox
2010-11-14  8:03                 ` Anthony Sorace
2010-11-14 15:23                 ` erik quanstrom
2010-11-14 17:46                   ` Russ Cox
2010-11-14 22:16                     ` erik quanstrom
2010-11-14  9:10             ` tlaronde
2010-11-14  9:32               ` Gary V. Vaughan
2010-11-14 10:22                 ` tlaronde
2010-11-14 10:50               ` Carl-Daniel Hailfinger
2010-11-14 11:47                 ` tlaronde
2010-11-14 21:44                 ` Charles Forsyth
2010-11-14 21:47                   ` Ori Bernstein
2010-11-18  5:30                   ` Joel C. Salomon
2010-11-18  5:57                     ` erik quanstrom
2010-11-18 22:50                     ` Federico G. Benavento
2010-11-19  2:06                       ` Joel C. Salomon
2010-11-19  3:13                         ` Federico G. Benavento
2010-11-25  9:39                       ` Greg Comeau
2010-11-15  4:29                 ` Gary V. Vaughan
2010-11-15  5:05                   ` Carl-Daniel Hailfinger
2010-11-15 15:48                   ` Dan Cross
2010-11-15 16:24                     ` Lucio De Re [this message]
2010-11-15 17:26                       ` Brian L. Stuart
2010-11-16  3:32                         ` lucio
2010-11-16  4:53                           ` erik quanstrom
2010-11-16  5:09                             ` lucio
2010-11-16 22:18                           ` Christopher Nielsen
2010-11-15 18:11                   ` Dave Eckhardt
2010-11-15 20:04                     ` Steve Simon
     [not found]           ` <79E9F966-3C4E-44D9-8B1F-D22C9548CE74@gnu.org>
2010-11-15  1:02             ` Enrico Weigelt
2010-11-15  4:17               ` Gary V. Vaughan
2010-11-15 16:22                 ` erik quanstrom
2010-11-17 23:48                 ` Enrico Weigelt
2010-11-04 16:00   ` erik quanstrom
2010-11-04 17:12     ` Admiral Fukov
2010-11-04 17:19       ` andrey mirtchovski
2010-11-04 17:30         ` Admiral Fukov
2010-11-04 20:27     ` David Leimbach
2010-11-04 12:15 dexen deVries
2010-11-04 12:48 ` Venkatesh Srinivas
2010-11-04 17:14   ` Admiral Fukov
2010-11-17  7:38 Pavel Zholkover
2010-11-17  7:44 ` Lucio De Re

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