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From: Ethan Grammatikidis <eekee57@fastmail.fm>
To: 9fans@9fans.net
Subject: [9fans] Mousing muscle memory (was: Mousing is faster than typing but users do not believe it)
Date: Mon,  4 Jul 2011 18:30:25 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20110704183025.7c169a3d@kolari.ethans.dre.am> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTikuJy8XAoRYK6z4sRNBQG_8mm7sFQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, 15 Jun 2011 09:23:56 -0700
David Leimbach <leimy2k@gmail.com> wrote:

> http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2657135
>
> Dave

Has anyone read the last few posts on this YC thread? Specifically the ones on game playing. The particular point which interested me was that game players can get so fast they must have developed muscle memory for mouse operations. I reflected on when I used to build a lot in Second Life, back when it had the "pie menu" - a circular menu with eight pie-shaped segments. I didn't need to look at that menu to know which segment I was selecting. It would just be a flicker in the corner of my screen as I opened it and selected the option I wanted in one barely-thought-about action, even through multiple levels of the menu. "Take Copy" (for instance) involved a right-click, the bottom segment for "More..." and then the top segment for "Take Copy" itself. All that became one action, the details completely instinctual. The audio feedback may have helped; it certainly told you by it's absence if you accidentally clicked on the sky instead of the object you were working on, but I'm di
 gressing.

I'm quite certain you can develop muscle memory for mouse actions in some situations. I'm very interested in determining exactly what situations and how to apply it in a more serious context. Chording can become instinctual if your fingers are up to the task but remembering that pie menu from Second Life, I wonder if such a thing would be just as efficient for text.

I find Rio's menus inefficient as they are, and I'm wondering why. One point is that the menus appear with the last chosen item selected, which means the pointer is not in a consistent position relative to the menu when it is opened. (I generally don't remember what my last menu operation was.) Another may be that the vertical stack of relatively narrow lines is just unsuitable for developing muscle memory; this certainly applies to me. I think direction is probably a more valuable property than distance when trying to develop muscle memory. SL's pie menu had relatively narrow but deep segments; the direction mattered much more than the distance, and that seemed just right to me.

Acme is a curious case. I think it's safe to say starting with the pointer in a consistent position relative to the interface is essential to building mouse muscle memory. Second Life always opened the pie menu with the pointer in the center. If the pointer was too near the edge of the window it was moved to the center of the opened menu. I've no doubt consistency is achieved in other games, albeit in different ways. In the worst case the player can leave the pointer on a particular icon. I've noticed I move the pointer to a fairly consistent 'rest spot' even in Second Life. Acme warps the pointer around in a way that fits with this idea up to a point, but then it spoils it by placing Del and Put somewhat inconsistently. It's not all bad, but I have to use my eyes for Put almost every single time.



  parent reply	other threads:[~2011-07-04 17:30 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 56+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2011-06-15 16:23 [9fans] Mousing is faster than typing but users do not believe it David Leimbach
2011-06-15 16:27 ` Jacob Todd
2011-06-15 20:19   ` errno
2011-06-15 20:30     ` andrey mirtchovski
2011-06-15 20:54       ` errno
2011-06-16  5:46     ` Charles Forsyth
2011-06-16  8:54       ` errno
2011-06-15 16:48 ` dexen deVries
2011-06-15 17:10   ` Jack Norton
2011-06-15 17:16     ` John Floren
2011-06-15 18:05 ` Mauricio CA
2011-06-15 18:16   ` Connor Lane Smith
2011-06-15 18:37     ` Harri Haataja
2011-06-15 19:28       ` dexen deVries
2011-06-16  9:30 ` antonio.fin
2011-06-16 11:54   ` Gorka Guardiola
2011-06-17  7:57     ` Guilherme Lino
2011-06-17  8:14       ` andrey mirtchovski
2011-06-17  9:16       ` Noah Evans
2011-06-17 14:26         ` ComeauAt9Fans@gmail.com
2011-06-17 13:55       ` Iruatã Souza
2011-06-17 15:39         ` Paul Lalonde
2011-06-17 16:09           ` Iruatã Souza
2011-06-17 16:54           ` Bakul Shah
2011-06-17 16:59             ` Harri Haataja
2011-06-17 17:29               ` andrew zerger
2011-06-17 18:03               ` Bakul Shah
2011-06-21 16:48         ` [9fans] Mousing is faster than typing but users " William Cowan
2011-06-21 17:20           ` Jack Johnson
2011-06-21 17:42             ` errno
2011-06-21 18:04               ` Jack Johnson
2011-06-21 19:42                 ` errno
2011-06-17 18:52       ` [9fans] Mousing is faster than typing but users do " errno
2011-06-17 10:05     ` antonio.fin
2011-06-17 10:44       ` Gorka Guardiola
2011-06-17 10:14 ` Oleg Finkelshteyn
2011-06-17 10:23   ` Rob Pike
2011-06-17 10:33     ` Gabriel Díaz López de la llave
2011-06-17 10:36     ` Rogelio Serrano
2011-06-17 11:19       ` dexen deVries
2011-06-17 12:22         ` hiro
2011-06-17 12:31           ` simon softnet
2011-06-17 19:23             ` Guilherme Lino
2011-06-17 19:34               ` Federico G. Benavento
2011-06-17 20:41               ` dorin bumbu
2011-06-17 20:49                 ` Steve Simon
2011-06-17 19:47 ` John Floren
2011-06-17 21:42   ` David Leimbach
2011-06-17 23:03     ` simon softnet
2011-06-18  0:35       ` David Leimbach
2011-06-18  0:44         ` simon softnet
2011-06-18  0:56     ` John Floren
2011-07-04 17:30 ` Ethan Grammatikidis [this message]
2011-07-04 20:05   ` [9fans] Mousing muscle memory (was: Mousing is faster than typing but users do not believe it) hiro
2011-07-04 21:21     ` Ethan Grammatikidis
2011-07-04 20:44   ` EBo

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