From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Message-ID: <5366B839.30004@lynxline.com> Date: Sun, 4 May 2014 23:59:21 +0200 From: Oleksandr Iakovliev User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.9; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.1.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net>, inferno-os@googlegroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------000206000509010201030608" Subject: [9fans] New /prog idea Topicbox-Message-UUID: ddba393e-ead8-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------000206000509010201030608 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Just idea, but seriously, why cannot do something like this: # cat /prog/new > $id # cat /dis/ls.dis > /prog/$id/dis # echo "/" > /prog/$id/cwd # echo =C2=ABRunning=C2=BB > /prog/$id/status Not to do it which echo/cat, but to have remote access to /prog/new --------------000206000509010201030608 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Just idea, but seriously, why cannot do something like this:

# cat /prog/new > $id
# cat /dis/ls.dis > /prog/$id/dis
# echo "/" > /prog/$id/cwd
# echo =C2=ABRunning=C2=BB > /prog/$id/status

Not to do it which echo/cat, but to have remote access to /prog/new --------------000206000509010201030608-- From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: erik quanstrom Date: Sun, 4 May 2014 20:53:39 -0400 To: 9fans@9fans.net Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <5366B839.30004@lynxline.com> References: <5366B839.30004@lynxline.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: [9fans] New /prog idea Topicbox-Message-UUID: ddc0c042-ead8-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025 On Sun May 4 18:01:22 EDT 2014, yshurik@lynxline.com wrote: >=20 > Just idea, but seriously, why cannot do something like this: >=20 > # cat /prog/new > $id > # cat /dis/ls.dis > /prog/$id/dis > # echo "/" > /prog/$id/cwd > # echo =C2=ABRunning=C2=BB > /prog/$id/status >=20 > Not to do it which echo/cat, but to have remote access to /prog/new so that's an interesting idea. i've toyed with the idea of having a mount driver analog for system calls, but got tripped up on the details, and the lack of a specific need. - erik From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Date: Mon, 5 May 2014 13:03:41 +0200 From: tlaronde@polynum.com To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net> Message-ID: <20140505110341.GB666@polynum.com> References: <5366B839.30004@lynxline.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: [9fans] New /prog idea Topicbox-Message-UUID: ddfe6e4c-ead8-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025 On Sun, May 04, 2014 at 08:53:39PM -0400, erik quanstrom wrote: >=20 > On Sun May 4 18:01:22 EDT 2014, yshurik@lynxline.com wrote: >=20 > >=20 > > Just idea, but seriously, why cannot do something like this: > >=20 > > # cat /prog/new > $id > > # cat /dis/ls.dis > /prog/$id/dis > > # echo "/" > /prog/$id/cwd > > # echo =ABRunning=BB > /prog/$id/status > >=20 > > Not to do it which echo/cat, but to have remote access to /prog/new >=20 > so that's an interesting idea. i've toyed with the idea of having > a mount driver analog for system calls, but got tripped up on > the details, and the lack of a specific need. The Bell Labs paper about plan9 talks about metaphors that can be abused: "Nonetheless, it is possible to push the idea of file-base computing too far." This the "Discussion" at the end of the paper... Playing with the idea and thinking about the implementation is probably a good way to understand the paper... --=20 Thierry Laronde http://www.kergis.com/ http://www.renaissance-francaise.fr/ Key fingerprint =3D 0FF7 E906 FBAF FE95 FD89 250D 52B1 AE95 6006 F40C From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: erik quanstrom Date: Mon, 5 May 2014 08:09:47 -0400 To: 9fans@9fans.net Message-ID: <4db1089d8f25cfff119fed042105fa07@brasstown.quanstro.net> In-Reply-To: <20140505110341.GB666@polynum.com> References: <5366B839.30004@lynxline.com> <20140505110341.GB666@polynum.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: [9fans] New /prog idea Topicbox-Message-UUID: de0cf8b8-ead8-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025 > On Sun, May 04, 2014 at 08:53:39PM -0400, erik quanstrom wrote: > >=20 > > On Sun May 4 18:01:22 EDT 2014, yshurik@lynxline.com wrote: > >=20 > > >=20 > > > Just idea, but seriously, why cannot do something like this: > > >=20 > > > # cat /prog/new > $id > > > # cat /dis/ls.dis > /prog/$id/dis > > > # echo "/" > /prog/$id/cwd > > > # echo =C2=ABRunning=C2=BB > /prog/$id/status > > >=20 > > > Not to do it which echo/cat, but to have remote access to /prog/new > >=20 > > so that's an interesting idea. i've toyed with the idea of having > > a mount driver analog for system calls, but got tripped up on > > the details, and the lack of a specific need. >=20 > The Bell Labs paper about plan9 talks about metaphors that can be > abused: "Nonetheless, it is possible to push the idea of file-base > computing too far." This the "Discussion" at the end of the paper... > Playing with the idea and thinking about the implementation is probably > a good way to understand the paper... i think it's possible to take the papers too far. :-) the plan 9 group = was in my opinion one of the best ever. but that part of the discussion is a opinion, and was taylored for a very different world, and a different operating system. the opinion was about plan 9 in the early 90s. not inferno today when the internet is ubiquitious. i'd be interested in the argument that things haven't changed enough to call for some reevaulation= . additionally, i think it is very interesting to consider a plan 9-like sy= stem that has system call namespaces. it is perhaps a way to deal with hetrog= enious multiprocessors, or even numa "machines" with big numa differences. like= , say, a cluster. - erik From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <4db1089d8f25cfff119fed042105fa07@brasstown.quanstro.net> References: <5366B839.30004@lynxline.com> <20140505110341.GB666@polynum.com> <4db1089d8f25cfff119fed042105fa07@brasstown.quanstro.net> Date: Mon, 5 May 2014 13:33:49 +0100 Message-ID: From: Charles Forsyth To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f46d040fa03cde5abc04f8a65765 Subject: Re: [9fans] New /prog idea Topicbox-Message-UUID: de126c8a-ead8-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025 --f46d040fa03cde5abc04f8a65765 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 On 5 May 2014 13:09, erik quanstrom wrote: > that has system call namespaces. the system calls that are not currently in the name space are those that do not distribute (and there have been a few things in the name space that don't distribute and are troublesome). segbrk doesn't distribute. rfork doesn't distribute. you can have a control request in a name space that operates on another process, or creates another process, but that's not a system call by the calling process: it's a request to another process for it to do something (possibly in the kernel domain, if there is one). --f46d040fa03cde5abc04f8a65765 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

= On 5 May 2014 13:09, erik quanstrom <quanstro@quanstro.net> wrote:

that has system call namespaces.

the system calls that are not currently in the name space are t= hose that do not distribute

(and there have been a few things in the name sp= ace that don't distribute and are troublesome).

segbrk doesn't distribute= . rfork doesn't distribute. you can have a control request in a name sp= ace that operates on another process,

or creates another process, but that's not a= system call by the calling process: it's a request to another process = for it to do something

(possibly in the ker= nel domain, if there is one).

--f46d040fa03cde5abc04f8a65765-- From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: erik quanstrom Date: Mon, 5 May 2014 09:06:56 -0400 To: 9fans@9fans.net Message-ID: In-Reply-To: References: <5366B839.30004@lynxline.com> <20140505110341.GB666@polynum.com> <4db1089d8f25cfff119fed042105fa07@brasstown.quanstro.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [9fans] New /prog idea Topicbox-Message-UUID: de2435b4-ead8-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025 > the system calls that are not currently in the name space are those > that do not distribute (and there have been a few things in the name > space that don't distribute and are troublesome). > > segbrk doesn't distribute. rfork doesn't distribute. you can have a > control request in a name space that operates on another process, or > creates another process, but that's not a system call by the calling > process: it's a request to another process for it to do something > (possibly in the kernel domain, if there is one). yes. to implement this idea, one may need to change the set of system calls. or maybe like file operations, not all system calls are valid in all contexts. i never ment to imply this was more than a half-baked idea, for a system that's no longer plan 9. (if i could see how things worked, i'd implement a toy system.) i think the proliferation of system calls in nemo's kernels with specialised cores might have been a related problem. - erik From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Message-ID: <5367A270.8070201@lynxline.com> Date: Mon, 5 May 2014 16:38:40 +0200 From: Oleksandr Iakovliev User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.9; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.1.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 9fans@9fans.net References: <5366B839.30004@lynxline.com> <20140505110341.GB666@polynum.com> <4db1089d8f25cfff119fed042105fa07@brasstown.quanstro.net> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="xJDUoWoPra5ktWGm4mk46xIfqXS5enaJn" Subject: Re: [9fans] New /prog idea Topicbox-Message-UUID: de29e28e-ead8-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --xJDUoWoPra5ktWGm4mk46xIfqXS5enaJn Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 05/05/2014 03:06 PM, erik quanstrom wrote: > nemo's kernels What is the nemo kernel? by the way --xJDUoWoPra5ktWGm4mk46xIfqXS5enaJn Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.0.22 (Darwin) Comment: GPGTools - http://gpgtools.org Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iF4EAREIAAYFAlNnonEACgkQeH8C/33k0Z0QQAD/VV5cBPirsRPDXeLuHj0THM5J Bl30Q28RGyf01kKpyT8BAOW9dX7EW5pEdQLG39OHKrSr5XDRULVF5XtanJlmqmTs =j4sM -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --xJDUoWoPra5ktWGm4mk46xIfqXS5enaJn-- From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: erik quanstrom Date: Mon, 5 May 2014 10:56:56 -0400 To: 9fans@9fans.net Message-ID: <44d8bf0fa70d84f90ab45e8c5f9eec4a@mikro.quanstro.net> In-Reply-To: <5367A270.8070201@lynxline.com> References: <5366B839.30004@lynxline.com> <20140505110341.GB666@polynum.com> <4db1089d8f25cfff119fed042105fa07@brasstown.quanstro.net> <5367A270.8070201@lynxline.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [9fans] New /prog idea Topicbox-Message-UUID: de36931c-ead8-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025 On Mon May 5 10:40:18 EDT 2014, yshurik@lynxline.com wrote: > On 05/05/2014 03:06 PM, erik quanstrom wrote: > > nemo's kernels > > What is the nemo kernel? by the way i used that as a term of art to avoid the fact i messed up by not changing the name of nix, which in 9atom is quite different, not having the ?C cores. http://lsub.org/ls/nix.html - erik From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <5366B839.30004@lynxline.com> References: <5366B839.30004@lynxline.com> Date: Mon, 5 May 2014 17:22:00 +0200 Message-ID: From: Gorka Guardiola To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a1134dec45ce02204f8a8b199 Subject: Re: [9fans] New /prog idea Topicbox-Message-UUID: de3d3fe6-ead8-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025 --001a1134dec45ce02204f8a8b199 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable There was a proc box in the original Plan B of which there were different version in the descendants (for files too) and which permitted things similar to what you want. See http://lsub.org/ls/export/man.1e.ps (page 31) and http://lsub.org/ls/export/ubiterm.icps05.pdf Later, Andrey and Ron did something similar for clusters with xcpu: http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/stamp/stamp.jsp?arnumber=3D04100349 G. On Sun, May 4, 2014 at 11:59 PM, Oleksandr Iakovliev wrote: > > Just idea, but seriously, why cannot do something like this: > > # cat /prog/new > $id > # cat /dis/ls.dis > /prog/$id/dis > # echo "/" > /prog/$id/cwd > # echo =C2=ABRunning=C2=BB > /prog/$id/status > > Not to do it which echo/cat, but to have remote access to /prog/new > --=20 - curiosity sKilled the cat --001a1134dec45ce02204f8a8b199 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

There was a proc box in the original Plan B of which there= were different

version in the descendants (for files too) and
which= permitted things similar to what you want. See

http://lsub.org/ls/export/man.1e.ps (page = 31)

and

http= ://lsub.org/ls/export/ubiterm.icps05.pdf

Later= , Andrey and Ron did something similar for clusters with xcpu:

= http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/stamp/stamp.jsp?arnumber=3D04100349

On Sun, May 4, 2014 at 11:59 PM, Oleksan= dr Iakovliev <yshurik@lynxline.com> wrote:
=20 =20 =20

Just idea, but seriously, why cannot do something like this:

=20 # cat /prog/new > $id
# cat /dis/ls.dis > /prog/$id/dis
# echo "/" > /prog/$id/cwd
# echo =C2=ABRunning=C2=BB > /prog/$id/status

Not to do it which echo/cat, but to have remote access to /prog/new

--
- curiosity = sKilled the cat

--001a1134dec45ce02204f8a8b199-- From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Message-ID: To: 9fans@9fans.net Date: Mon, 5 May 2014 18:38:50 +0200 From: lucio@proxima.alt.za In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="upas-oufssdaxqgpsgwkrqnaezlzoep" Subject: Re: [9fans] New /prog idea Topicbox-Message-UUID: de45e0b0-ead8-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --upas-oufssdaxqgpsgwkrqnaezlzoep Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It seems to me that this type of operation would be considerably more successful if there was better interaction between the kernel and a running program. that is, if processes were engineered to accept unsolicited signalling from the kernel and, consequently, from other processes without being restricted to a narrow range of signals or notes. ++L --upas-oufssdaxqgpsgwkrqnaezlzoep Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: <9fans-bounces@9fans.net> Received: from mail.9fans.net (mail.9fans.net [67.207.142.3]) by mumble.proxima.alt.za (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id s45GJbTP007772 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 5 May 2014 18:19:39 +0200 (SAST) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=[67.207.142.3]) by mail.9fans.net with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <9fans-bounces@9fans.net>) id 1WhL24-0004Ex-IP; Mon, 05 May 2014 15:42:20 +0000 Received: from mr004.lax02.mailroute.net ([199.89.1.7] helo=in-mr004.lax02.mailroute.net) by mail.9fans.net with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WhL22-0004Er-RN for 9fans@9fans.net; Mon, 05 May 2014 15:42:18 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by in-mr004.lax02.mailroute.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3gMnqJ1Mwsz14KPq for <9fans@9fans.net>; Mon, 5 May 2014 15:22:04 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: by MailRoute X-X-Spam-Flag: NO X-X-Spam-Score: -0.059 X-X-Spam-Level: X-X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.059 tagged_above=-9999 tests=[DKIM_VALID=-0.01, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.01, DKIM_VERIFIED=-0.01, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-0.01] autolearn=disabled Authentication-Results: mr004.lax02.mailroute.net (mroute_mailscanner); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from in-mr004.lax02.mailroute.net ([199.89.1.7]) by localhost (mr004.lax02.mailroute.net [127.0.0.1]) (mroute_mailscanner, port 10024) with LMTP id nrUnaey9z6rD for <9fans@9fans.net>; Mon, 5 May 2014 15:22:03 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-la0-f54.google.com (mail-la0-f54.google.com [209.85.215.54]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by in-mr004.lax02.mailroute.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3gMnqG5QGJz14Kdh for <9fans@9fans.net>; Mon, 5 May 2014 15:22:02 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-la0-f54.google.com with SMTP id gf5so2984302lab.13 for <9fans@9fans.net>; Mon, 05 May 2014 08:22:00 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=7T8cftcKJ8Hv3R5UQdnwsPfYWWaMbWkLECwi7PxmYuM=; b=GIz0r0VWFGmGU6DK5bt9/IFC6acoDB88HZxXZnT4kI+N8C7ddC2ervdn2IZAo/AhmV v3rsil/hvRG/LrpETuo09CdK7ntWZOPfC6zhYpuavMYWtUr7Hgd2ahcRKk2wEPwWjgoz 7C3TPHRzSyxO9Q/iVVgY9brpg8lVqsI31eBEF9AK02QO9/gbBMPPE9W6/rd/AmrgH3lx aT/ZFp3fgsLGgZCSzqfx0EgEo5n6jO85ENgSs3F4HJ+E6Ow6NWDxG9PQ/YV/eTY3w7vh hgdb9pk31oM0ABFoFRiS91E+/LR50ysIvrbHxny51G6pUItfPj2Zq2e/00gQWwid+2m1 492g== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.112.106.40 with SMTP id gr8mr25932886lbb.0.1399303320689; Mon, 05 May 2014 08:22:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.112.30.108 with HTTP; Mon, 5 May 2014 08:22:00 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <5366B839.30004@lynxline.com> References: <5366B839.30004@lynxline.com> Date: Mon, 5 May 2014 17:22:00 +0200 Message-ID: From: Gorka Guardiola To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a1134dec45ce02204f8a8b199 Subject: Re: [9fans] New /prog idea X-BeenThere: 9fans@9fans.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list Reply-To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net> List-Id: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans.9fans.net> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: 9fans-bounces@9fans.net Errors-To: 9fans-bounces@9fans.net X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.6 (mumble.proxima.alt.za [192.96.32.140]); Mon, 05 May 2014 18:19:39 +0200 (SAST) X-Filter: OK <9fans-bounces@9fans.net> --001a1134dec45ce02204f8a8b199 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable There was a proc box in the original Plan B of which there were different version in the descendants (for files too) and which permitted things similar to what you want. See http://lsub.org/ls/export/man.1e.ps (page 31) and http://lsub.org/ls/export/ubiterm.icps05.pdf Later, Andrey and Ron did something similar for clusters with xcpu: http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/stamp/stamp.jsp?arnumber=3D04100349 G. On Sun, May 4, 2014 at 11:59 PM, Oleksandr Iakovliev wrote: > > Just idea, but seriously, why cannot do something like this: > > # cat /prog/new > $id > # cat /dis/ls.dis > /prog/$id/dis > # echo "/" > /prog/$id/cwd > # echo =C2=ABRunning=C2=BB > /prog/$id/status > > Not to do it which echo/cat, but to have remote access to /prog/new > --=20 - curiosity sKilled the cat --001a1134dec45ce02204f8a8b199 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable