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* [9fans] troff refer and bib
@ 2021-04-08 10:57 Maurizio Boriani
  2021-04-08 11:27 ` sirjofri
  2021-04-08 11:45 ` arnold
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 13+ messages in thread
From: Maurizio Boriani @ 2021-04-08 10:57 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans


Hi,
  is there somewhere in plan9 code base (9front, plan9port etc...) the
source code of refer and/or bib? I found many references to 'em but
didn't found the code or programs.


Thanks,

bye



-- 
Maurizio Boriani 
PGP key: 0xCC0FBF8F

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* Re: [9fans] troff refer and bib
  2021-04-08 10:57 [9fans] troff refer and bib Maurizio Boriani
@ 2021-04-08 11:27 ` sirjofri
  2021-04-09 14:39   ` Charles Forsyth
  2021-04-08 11:45 ` arnold
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread
From: sirjofri @ 2021-04-08 11:27 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans


08.04.2021 12:57:15 Maurizio Boriani <baux@boriani.cloud>:
>   is there somewhere in plan9 code base (9front, plan9port etc...) the
> source code of refer and/or bib? I found many references to 'em but
> didn't found the code or programs.

I got mine from contrib:

https://9p.io/wiki/plan9/contrib_index/index.html
(EXTRA section, by charles forsyth)

sirjofri

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* Re: [9fans] troff refer and bib
  2021-04-08 10:57 [9fans] troff refer and bib Maurizio Boriani
  2021-04-08 11:27 ` sirjofri
@ 2021-04-08 11:45 ` arnold
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 13+ messages in thread
From: arnold @ 2021-04-08 11:45 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

Maurizio Boriani <baux@boriani.cloud> wrote:

> Hi,
>   is there somewhere in plan9 code base (9front, plan9port etc...) the
> source code of refer and/or bib? I found many references to 'em but
> didn't found the code or programs.

The Research Unix versions can be found in the TUHS archives (see
tuhs.org).  I suspect that the Heirloom Troff versions could also
be made to work.

HTH,

Arnold

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* Re: [9fans] troff refer and bib
  2021-04-08 11:27 ` sirjofri
@ 2021-04-09 14:39   ` Charles Forsyth
  2021-04-09 15:41     ` Maurizio Boriani
  2021-04-09 16:04     ` sirjofri
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 13+ messages in thread
From: Charles Forsyth @ 2021-04-09 14:39 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1132 bytes --]

I still use it. I think it differs in many ways from the original version
(the Caldera licence was to allow the 7th Edition code to be used in 2002).
Not least that it's formatted and arranged to be readable. It made some
things dynamic so it could handle large reference libraries.
There were bug fixes.
I also replaced the original's internal fgrep implementation by the
Aho-Corasick as developed in the paper.

On Thu, Apr 8, 2021 at 12:28 PM sirjofri <sirjofri+ml-9fans@sirjofri.de>
wrote:

>
> 08.04.2021 12:57:15 Maurizio Boriani <baux@boriani.cloud>:
> >   is there somewhere in plan9 code base (9front, plan9port etc...) the
> > source code of refer and/or bib? I found many references to 'em but
> > didn't found the code or programs.
> 
> I got mine from contrib:
> 
> https://9p.io/wiki/plan9/contrib_index/index.html
> (EXTRA section, by charles forsyth)
> 
> sirjofri

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* Re: [9fans] troff refer and bib
  2021-04-09 14:39   ` Charles Forsyth
@ 2021-04-09 15:41     ` Maurizio Boriani
  2021-04-09 16:04     ` sirjofri
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 13+ messages in thread
From: Maurizio Boriani @ 2021-04-09 15:41 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans


Charles Forsyth writes:

> I still use it. I think it differs in many ways from the original
> version

the version you contributed in extra/refer.tgz ?


Thanks,

best regards.


-- 
Maurizio Boriani 
PGP key: 0xCC0FBF8F

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* Re: [9fans] troff refer and bib
  2021-04-09 14:39   ` Charles Forsyth
  2021-04-09 15:41     ` Maurizio Boriani
@ 2021-04-09 16:04     ` sirjofri
  2021-04-09 16:18       ` Maurizio Boriani
  2021-04-09 19:51       ` [9fans] troff refer and bib Charles Forsyth
  1 sibling, 2 replies; 13+ messages in thread
From: sirjofri @ 2021-04-09 16:04 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans


09.04.2021 16:39:53 Charles Forsyth <charles.forsyth@gmail.com>:
> I still use it. I think it differs in many ways from the original 
> version (the Caldera licence was to allow the 7th Edition code to be 
> used in 2002).

Nice to read from you!

I personally found the code hard to read, but I feel it's just normal for 
the complexity of the task. Managing references is harder than it may 
sound, I'm sure.

I used your refer version for my two last theses in university, I just 
wished it had a native solution for double references. I needed the 
reference as footnotes in the text, as well as at the very end of the 
thesis under a bibliography/literature section. Refer can do both, but 
not simultaneously. I built a rc script around this which calls refer 
twice and merges the results, which is a very hacky solution... but it 
worked.

I like how refer embeds nicely into Plan 9 (with calls like refer/refer).

(This reminds me, I should finish my wwb port, but that's offtopic.)

Thanks for porting refer. Again, I wish we had some easier way to manage 
contrib packages, e.g. by having repositories and just clone and mk them. 
I never know which package is still supported and supposed to work and 
which ones are legacy and don't work.

sirjofri

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* Re: [9fans] troff refer and bib
  2021-04-09 16:04     ` sirjofri
@ 2021-04-09 16:18       ` Maurizio Boriani
  2021-04-09 16:25         ` David du Colombier
  2021-04-09 19:51       ` [9fans] troff refer and bib Charles Forsyth
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread
From: Maurizio Boriani @ 2021-04-09 16:18 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans


sirjofri writes:

> (This reminds me, I should finish my wwb port, but that's offtopic.)

may be offtopic but now I'm just curious :-) what's wwb ?


thanks,


-- 
Maurizio Boriani 
PGP key: 0xCC0FBF8F

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* Re: [9fans] troff refer and bib
  2021-04-09 16:18       ` Maurizio Boriani
@ 2021-04-09 16:25         ` David du Colombier
  2021-04-09 17:57           ` sirjofri
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread
From: David du Colombier @ 2021-04-09 16:25 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

> may be offtopic but now I'm just curious :-) what's wwb ?

Writer's Workbench.

https://archive.org/details/wwb-user

-- 
David du Colombier

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* Re: [9fans] troff refer and bib
  2021-04-09 16:25         ` David du Colombier
@ 2021-04-09 17:57           ` sirjofri
  2021-04-09 21:45             ` Xiao-Yong Jin
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread
From: sirjofri @ 2021-04-09 17:57 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans


09.04.2021 18:25:32 David du Colombier <0intro@gmail.com>:
>> may be offtopic but now I'm just curious :-) what's wwb ?
>
> Writer's Workbench.

Writer's Workbench

https://git.sr.ht/~sirjofri/wwb9

(Works on 9, but I need to make it better for different platforms and 
some tools need adjustments. Send patches.)

sirjofri

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* Re: [9fans] troff refer and bib
  2021-04-09 16:04     ` sirjofri
  2021-04-09 16:18       ` Maurizio Boriani
@ 2021-04-09 19:51       ` Charles Forsyth
  2021-04-09 20:37         ` sirjofri
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread
From: Charles Forsyth @ 2021-04-09 19:51 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 935 bytes --]

> I personally found the code hard to read,


The original looked like this:

tabs (sv, line)
    char *sv[], *line;
{
char *p;
int n 0;
sv[n++] = line;
for( p= line; *p; p++)
    {
    if (*p == '\n')
        {
        *p=0;
        sv[n++] = p+1;
        }
    }
return(n-1);
}
class (nt, tv)
    char *tv[];
{
if (hastype (nt, tv, 'J'))
    return("1 journal-article");
if (hastype (nt, tv, 'B'))
    return("3 article-in-book");
if (hastype (nt, tv, 'R'))
    return ("4 tech-report");
if (hastype (nt, tv, 'G'))
    return ("4 tech-report");
if (hastype (nt, tv, 'I'))
    return("2 book");
if (hastype (nt, tv,'M'))
    return ("5 bell-tm");
return("0 other");
}

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* Re: [9fans] troff refer and bib
  2021-04-09 19:51       ` [9fans] troff refer and bib Charles Forsyth
@ 2021-04-09 20:37         ` sirjofri
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 13+ messages in thread
From: sirjofri @ 2021-04-09 20:37 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans


09.04.2021 21:51:50 Charles Forsyth <charles.forsyth@gmail.com>:
>> I personally found the code hard to read,
>
> The original looked like this:

Yeah, I've seen the original wwb Unix V10 code. Looks very similar...

But still I'm surprised I got it to compile without many adjustments. 
Most changes were pure syntax changes.

If someone's interested, you can compare my source with the v10 code at 
tuhs. I didn't touch anything I didn't need to.

sirjofri

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* Re: [9fans] troff refer and bib
  2021-04-09 17:57           ` sirjofri
@ 2021-04-09 21:45             ` Xiao-Yong Jin
  2021-04-09 22:17               ` [9fans] Writer's Workbench (was: troff refer and bib) sirjofri
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread
From: Xiao-Yong Jin @ 2021-04-09 21:45 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

> On Apr 9, 2021, at 12:57 PM, sirjofri <sirjofri+ml-9fans@sirjofri.de> wrote:
> 
> Writer's Workbench
> 
> https://git.sr.ht/~sirjofri/wwb9
> 
> (Works on 9, but I need to make it better for different platforms and some tools need adjustments. Send patches.)

What exactly is the license?  Even just reading code of unclear license could get many people in trouble.
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* Re: [9fans] Writer's Workbench (was: troff refer and bib)
  2021-04-09 21:45             ` Xiao-Yong Jin
@ 2021-04-09 22:17               ` sirjofri
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 13+ messages in thread
From: sirjofri @ 2021-04-09 22:17 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans


09.04.2021 23:45:47 Xiao-Yong Jin <meta.jxy@gmail.com>:
>> On Apr 9, 2021, at 12:57 PM, sirjofri <sirjofri+ml-9fans@sirjofri.de> 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Writer's Workbench
>>
>> https://git.sr.ht/~sirjofri/wwb9
>>
>> (Works on 9, but I need to make it better for different platforms and 
>> some tools need adjustments. Send patches.)
>
> What exactly is the license?  Even just reading code of unclear license 
> could get many people in trouble.

TL;DR: "non-commercial
copying, distribution, performance, display or creation of derivative 
works" is allowed.


Sadly the license is not open-source! That's why I added the note and 
didn't change much, especially not the license notes. I also didn't add 
license information on purpose, so people like you will have to ask and 
search for more info.

See this document for more info about why I felt free to port it: 
https://www.tuhs.org/Archive/Distributions/Research/Norman_v9/statement_regarding_Unix_3-7-17.pdf


"will not assert its copyright rights with respect to any non-commercial
copying, distribution, performance, display or creation of derivative 
works"

If I understand that correctly I should be fine and the distribution of 
the port is legal under the mentioned terms, but of course I cannot 
simply change the license. It is _not_ my code nor my software, I just 
made it work on 9 and added some rc files. My additions can be considered 
as open source, but I'm not sure if I can just state that in the repo.

I should add some notes about the original source and the statement, I 
think.

I hope this helps. I don't think I can help more than that, and Ianal. If 
you need help with the software you can ask, of course.

When testing, I should mention it works on 9front. I didn't test it on 
any other fork, but I see no reason why it wouldn't work.

sirjofri

Btw I'd love to release it under an open source license, if I can. These 
tools are old, but still helpful and can be used in comparison with 
modern tools, maybe even in combination and for developing better tools 
in the future.

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end of thread, other threads:[~2021-04-09 22:17 UTC | newest]

Thread overview: 13+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2021-04-08 10:57 [9fans] troff refer and bib Maurizio Boriani
2021-04-08 11:27 ` sirjofri
2021-04-09 14:39   ` Charles Forsyth
2021-04-09 15:41     ` Maurizio Boriani
2021-04-09 16:04     ` sirjofri
2021-04-09 16:18       ` Maurizio Boriani
2021-04-09 16:25         ` David du Colombier
2021-04-09 17:57           ` sirjofri
2021-04-09 21:45             ` Xiao-Yong Jin
2021-04-09 22:17               ` [9fans] Writer's Workbench (was: troff refer and bib) sirjofri
2021-04-09 19:51       ` [9fans] troff refer and bib Charles Forsyth
2021-04-09 20:37         ` sirjofri
2021-04-08 11:45 ` arnold

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