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identity=mailfrom; envelope-from="ori@eigenstate.org"; helo=mimir.eigenstate.org; client-ip=206.124.132.107 Received: from mimir.eigenstate.org (mimir.eigenstate.org [206.124.132.107]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by tb-mx1.topicbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS for <9fans@9fans.net>; Wed, 27 Jan 2021 11:52:25 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from ori@eigenstate.org) Received: from abbatoir.fios-router.home (pool-74-101-2-6.nycmny.fios.verizon.net [74.101.2.6]) by mimir.eigenstate.org (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTPSA id ae4b6203 (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA:256:NO) for <9fans@9fans.net>; Wed, 27 Jan 2021 08:52:24 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <21AE5944012F26AD61546F797F677050@eigenstate.org> To: 9fans@9fans.net Subject: Re: [9fans] Dual dialing/forking sessions to increase 9P throughput Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2021 08:52:22 -0800 From: ori@eigenstate.org In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Topicbox-Policy-Reasoning: allow: sender is a member Topicbox-Message-UUID: 0b4b4ed4-60c0-11eb-ab4d-f8f278829eda Archived-At: =?UTF-8?B?PGh0dHBzOi8vOWZhbnMudG9waWNib3guY29tL2dyb3Vwcy85?= =?UTF-8?B?ZmFucy9UZTY5YmIwZmNlMGYwZmZhZi1NYWZmNWUwOTYxOTQxMDYyOTYxZmY0?= =?UTF-8?B?ZjJkPg==?= List-Help: List-Id: "9fans" <9fans.9fans.net> List-Post: List-Software: Topicbox v0 List-Subscribe: Precedence: list Reply-To: 9fans <9fans@9fans.net> List-Unsubscribe: , Topicbox-Delivery-ID: 2:9fans:437d30aa-c441-11e9-8a57-d036212d11b0:522be890-2105-11eb-b15e-8d699134e1fa:Maff5e0961941062961ff4f2d:1:9PbjcRosKwfkK5F-WHCVvTt8H6hNias3lJIOrs9UO4Q Quoth David Arroyo : > On Tue, Dec 29, 2020, at 18:50, cigar562hfsp952fans@icebubble.org wrote: > > It's well-known that 9P has trouble transferring large files (high > > volume/high bandwith) over high-latency networks, such as the Internet. >=20 > From what I know of 9P, I don't think this is the fault of the protocol > itself. In fact, since 9P lets the clients choose Fid and Tag identifiers, > it should be uniquely well suited for "long fat pipes". You could avoid > waiting for round-trips by optimistically assuming your requests succeed. > For example, you could do the following to optimistically read the first > 8K bytes of a file without needing to wait for a response from the server. >=20 > * Twalk tag=3D1 fid=3D0 newfid=3D1 /path/to/somefile > * Topen tag=3D2 fid=3D1 o_read > * Tread tag=3D3 fid=3D1 off=3D0 count=3D4096 > * Tread tag=3D4 fid=3D1 off=3D4096 count=3D4096 > * Tclunk tag=3D5 fid=3D1 >=20 > I'm not aware of any client implementations that do this kind of > pipelining, though. >=20 > David This also has some hairy edge cases. For example, what happens to the actions in the pipeline if one of the operations fails? I think that for this kind of pipelining to be effective, 9p may need some notion of 'bundles', where the first failure, short write, or other exceptional operation would cause all other commands in the bundle to be ignored. Another issue is that its' difficult to retrofit this pipelining into the plan 9 system call interface; when do you return an error from read(2)? what if there are mutiple Treads? Finally, there's the problem of flow control; with 9p, round trip time limits starvation, at least to a degree. But how do you handle congestion if you can stuff as many 9p packets down a single connection as possible? There's no packet loss, but you can end up with very long delays as small reads like /dev/mouse get queued behind bulk transfers. There are some programs that try to handle this for 'well behaved' file systems (eg, fcp(1), or http://src.a-b.xyz/clone/, but making it happen in general is not trivial. ------------------------------------------ 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/Te69bb0fce0f0ffaf-Maff5e= 0961941062961ff4f2d Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription